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Tyler Mancuso
New member
Username: Tmancuso

Post Number: 2
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Thursday, November 21, 2002 - 01:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So, what does everyone think of the rebranding, and new logos? If you have not seen them you can go to intranet.sja.ca and see the whole plan there!

Personally I do not want to see "St. John Ambulance" changed to "St. John First Aid", or the logo be changed, so what do you think?
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D. E. (Dean) Lenz, SBStJ
Member
Username: Dlenz

Post Number: 10
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Thursday, November 21, 2002 - 02:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh you have no idea how much of a hornet's nest has been stirred up by this superficial change.

Let's change something that won't have a direct impact on the "negatives" they listed in their proposal/rationale.

Let's change something superficial, something that can be easily seen that the people will notice. Great, we notice it, but it does NOT change the organization.

What is WRONG is our marketing of our current image and services. Lets better market these and promote who we ARE and have been, not who someone else wants us to be.

I am sure Tyler, that you will get a very HEATED thread going by asking this question.

Oh and why wait, I have attached the two less than desireable selections below.

Logo A
Logo A

Logo B
Logo B
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Rick Patterson
Intermediate Member
Username: Rick_patterson

Post Number: 25
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Thursday, November 21, 2002 - 02:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

AUGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
Oh greatBlessed Brother Gerards ghost say it's not so
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Franco Tsang
Member
Username: Ftsang

Post Number: 10
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Thursday, November 21, 2002 - 02:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

as i've said before in another thread, i dont think the change is necessary!
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Saskia Wilson
New member
Username: Saskia

Post Number: 2
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Thursday, November 21, 2002 - 04:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

St. John First Aid? Not all that catchy if you ask me. It has been St. John Ambulance for how many hundreds of years? Why would someone want to go and change what we have been known by to the public? Not to mention think of all the $$ that would have to be spent in order to re-design the logo and make the proper name changes. St. John Ambulance sounds as if we actually have trainning. I dont know about the rest of you, but St. John First Aid makes it sound as if we only have the basics which i know non of us have, we have more trainning...right?
Im almost positive that if the Benidictine Monks could see what has been done to the eight pointed cross they would be extremely disturbed. People recognize us by our logo and our white uniform shirts and tac pants. Now they want to go and change the logo? whats so wrong with what we have now? But who knows, there might be people out there who like it. I personally dont. It just doesnt look or sound right.
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Rick Patterson
Intermediate Member
Username: Rick_patterson

Post Number: 26
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Thursday, November 21, 2002 - 04:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How about also changing the colours , oh yeah we did that one already but how about a light pink, slate grey and off white. while we're at it how about thshirts and jeans for duties or how about adopting the another organizations equipment as we don't seem happy with what we have.
Folks, we better do something before a group of people make moves to change us beyond recognition. Pass this on to others and start getting members to voice either their support or dislike for whats happening. Hopefully our Provincial staff will keep us informed.
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Melissa Ying
Junior Member
Username: Mying

Post Number: 4
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Thursday, November 21, 2002 - 06:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Keep in mind the reasons they think they need to change our "image".

To better market our training, but look at who our competition is. Besides the Red Cross, whom I don't really consider "competition" but more "we're in this together", in our area we're up against "Code 7" and "911 Response" and other things. They get business. Changing our name so we sound less "ambulancey" only puts us OUT of the market, not IN.

As far as who we're up against in Event services... "Event Medical Services", and "Dedicated AmbServ" are our non-EMS competitors. Are we not as professional as they are? Of course we are. We just don't get paid. Why isn't National backing us up there, saying that yes, we're just as good as companies that use the word ambulance or medical?

I've never encountered anybody who was "confused" about the use of the word "Ambulance" in our corporate name. I mean, either the public (a) doesn't notice, because that's been our name FOREVER, and that's just who we are, or (b) thinks it's appropriate since we do own trucks with flashy lights.

It lends us credibility. Change it to St. John First Aid, and my basic undergraduate marketing class tells you we'll lose business because people will think we aren't the Real Thing. What a nightmare, changing all those Mine Act documents and WSIB and what have you. Not to mention, if any of those agencies were thinking of writing us out of their act, what better time than when they have to change every mention of our name anyways.

Besides. We owned the word "Ambulance" before it meant "truck with four wheels and flashy lights". The original word "Ambulance" refers to any medical or pre-medical aid given ON the FIELD, and not in a hospital. It basically means: We come to you, you don't have to come to us. (And the terms "St. John Ambulance" actually refer to a wheeled stretcher designed by John Furley, one of our founders, if I recall correctly.)

And the line about "Lone Rangers?" Who's being the Lone Ranger here? No other country or priory has ditched the St. John Ambulance moniker that I know of.

Indeed, we'd be better served if money and energy was spent bettering our public and media relations, and improving our in-house communications, standardizations, and training, rather than changing our name and uniforms. Where did they get this information that the problem lied in the cover of the book and not the contents? Because the survey results they released didn't say anything about confusion regarding our name or our uniform. It's not the colours or the logo or the clothes that the public cares about. It's their perception of us, and only informative marketing, not brand switcheroos, are going to fix that.

Really, while they're doing all this, when's the last time National HQ sent out a press release?

As I see it, and as I've seen it work, our selling points are our community services. If only our "marketing specialists" could see their way to that. We know our first aid training works because our volunteers, even our youngest volunteers, use these skills regularly. We aren't going to overload our courses or rush the training because we really believe in TRAINING the public, that's our mission and community service, we aren't just in it for the money but because we believe it makes a difference.

But instead of focusing on what makes a charitable organization so good at delivering first aid, they try to play games with our future... and are doing a botch up job of it too.

Just my (strong) opinion.
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Melissa Ying
Junior Member
Username: Mying

Post Number: 5
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Thursday, November 21, 2002 - 06:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hmm. Adding to a post, how rude.

If we have to change the logo, I actually don't mind. The current one has a very heavy bottom, looks very static and like it isn't going anywhere. The second of the two that Dean posted looks dynamic, and I could live with that change. (The first one, frankly, looks terrible -- "look, we're all tied up in ourselves and about to trip over our own feet" is what that one says.)

But at the same time... I'm not sure it's necessary to change it at all. Brand recognition does not equal the same as brand revamping, and organizations that change their logo and branding too often appear uncertain and shaky.
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Rick Patterson
Intermediate Member
Username: Rick_patterson

Post Number: 28
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Thursday, November 21, 2002 - 08:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I like what you said Mellissa, what we need is more members to make themselves heard or else I think we're going to be in a lot of trouble.
And sometimes once job has been botched it's hard to bodge it back to the way it was...Just think about St. John Enterprise remember how well that went.
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Rick Patterson
Intermediate Member
Username: Rick_patterson

Post Number: 29
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Thursday, November 21, 2002 - 08:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Heres a question? if they ever adopted one of those (ugh)so called logos does that mean we'd have to make everyone change their OStJ's over to that to? Pretty but not quite the real thing. Sorry folks , this one does hit a nerve with me.
No other country in the Commonwealth has had to do this, so now why all of a sudden do we?
Can we get someone from National to comment on where they think they are taking us...Ihave my own thought of the direction and it aint up.
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Tyler Mancuso
New member
Username: Tmancuso

Post Number: 3
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Friday, November 22, 2002 - 08:45 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi Everyone,

This is great to see the reponses, this is why I put this question up, as the organization is taking a large step in history without communicating to its volunteers.

The question of cost of course is very important, what would our trucks look like, uniforms, not to mention all the equipment we have labeled with the logo and "SJA" on it... It would be very costly, along with the fact that "Ambulance" was first used by St. John and now they want to remove this term.

We also have to face the fact that use of defibrillators, oxygen, suctioning, airway managmement, is not a simple "FIRST AID" procedure, we are moving to higher training all the time, and to change the name to "First Aid" would be a negative to our image.

We need to market what we have now, we are the LEADERS, Red Cross has never changed their name, and their name is all over the place, so we simply need to MARKET THE CURRENT NAME!

Hopefully our provincial headquarters will note all of these comments and take them to the right people
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Hal Rowan
Member
Username: Hrowan

Post Number: 12
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Friday, November 22, 2002 - 05:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I certainly hope those two submissions weren't serious. I agree that we need to boost the image that we have already established in peoples minds. I wasn't aware of these before now. How about the bulk of our members who don't have access to the internet. Are they going to do a mail out BEFORE they make their decision, or will they just be informed of the decision after the fact. I'm sure if they saw or heard any of this they would certainly want their opinion heard via snail mail.

I think we should have more involvement by the provincial staff in how the individual Divisions are promoting themselves. This may not be a popular stance, but all of our members are suppose to be given performance reviews. The D.S. of each Division has noone to give one to them. I think there should be some way of tracking how well each individual Division is doing so that they can focus in on their weaker points and possibly enlist the aid of a provincial staffer to stick with an individual Division (via phone and one or two visits a month) until they are back on track. If there is a trend that quite a few Divisions need work in the same area, then they could concentrate on those areas.

For Youth the areas could be participation in Proficiencies, public duties, camps, competitions. Submissions completed on time: annual training schedule, annual provincial return, annual budget submissions, competition applications, etc.

Also increase or decrease in members from the previous year, status of current recruitment and retention plans.

I feel that the D.S. is personnally responsible for the performance of the entire Division. We are volunteers so I don't expect big brother to come after us when things aren't running perfectly. We all have our trouble areas which take time before they are sorted out (could be due to lack of leaders, new recruits, funding,etc).

I know that currently there are probably not enough Provincial Staff to pull this off. It could also be done by leaders from other Divisions who have recently overcome similar obstacles.

I think recruitment and training/participation may be big items that always need to be brushed up on.

I don't think these should be made public. Just as a reference for the D.S. and the Provincial Staff assisting them.
Sometimes even the D.S. needs motivational support from above.
The best advertising (for Divisions) can be word of mouth. When things are running smoothly it can be easier to snowball in new recruits.

What do you think?
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Rick Patterson
Intermediate Member
Username: Rick_patterson

Post Number: 30
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Friday, November 22, 2002 - 07:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think you've got it right.
It's OUR organization and We should have a say and not be told the way it's going to be. And like you said maybe we need to take control of how we are running things at a grass roots level. I was reading the focus and noticed we are going to train community emergency response teams....?... what are or were we maybe we should look at having a bigger part in that or maybe ram rodding it more.
My gut feeling is if we as a membership dont start speaking up, we may not have an organization very long.
I encourage our future leaders jr's ,cadets, crusaders and cadet leaders to get on here and say something. If what is being said doesnt seem right then say so, it may be the last democratic forum you'll see.
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Victoria Joan Robinson
Junior Member
Username: V_robinson

Post Number: 5
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Saturday, November 23, 2002 - 04:42 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Guys,
This seems to be quite a touchy subject with everyone. I tend to lean towards Mr. Patterson's comments. If we changed our appearance, altough it may be superficial, people may not realize that there is a connection. That, and it could take well over a year to get the new system in place.
If this were to fly, what if we did trial runs. Find a couple divisions that really like the idea of changing the looks, and have them just test it for a summer of something, and if positive results occur, well so be it, if not, nevermind it. I don't know about anyone else's division but Belleville in the last month has grown alot (compared to what it was before) and it was primarily becuase of First Aid classes, and the brigade being pushed. Of course, though, the members that joined b/c of FA classes were taught by members, but still it worked. And word of mouth is EXCELLENT!!
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keri christy
New member
Username: Kwoman

Post Number: 5
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Saturday, November 23, 2002 - 06:57 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well heres my Two cents . but its to do with the graphic design .
With the two designs above , i think they need to be rejected as its to abstract for most to understand the meaning . Since im Artistic and did one year of graphic design in college . i would never use the colors like this person has used . Sure the design is fine but the colors are to wild .

i can sit here all day and type words that might confuse you .
Without showing you on paper the way i would like it to be , but if you can imagine the red in the symbol conflicts with the words . i can take the same designs above and change colors here and their , highlite key areas to bring it to life so you eyes are not drawn to one area . and both designs do this .
When you look at something , you want to be able to see the design as a whole with the words .

But this is my objective view and i dont like the way the designs have been thought out .
I really feel theirs no need to change this , I agree dont change a thing .

Keep in mind what we do . ST John Ambulance means group of people aiding in medical help .

St John First Aid people might mistake it for education and not emergency care .

Im sorry but in my home town Theirs enough that dont know St john Ambulance exsists . Lets keep it simple . And not confuse them in lending them to think theirs two organinations. but the truth is .

One is good enough lets work on this one .
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Rick Patterson
Advanced Member
Username: Rick_patterson

Post Number: 31
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Saturday, November 23, 2002 - 10:27 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well after finally seeing all the information that is presented on the national site I believe one thing. They are going to do this whether we like it or not and if we don't like it we will be branded as "Lone Rangers".
So folks I guess we'll not only be Lone Rnagers but in the ST. John Ambulance family in the Commonwealth we'll probably be black sheep.
And while I'm on a rant here's a sugestion for National, doesn't St. have a religious conontation to it maybe we might want to drop that to as we're not priests , so why not just call us the Community volunteers John, or just the Community John ....you can guess why
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Mike Rumble, RPN
Junior Member
Username: Mrumble

Post Number: 5
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Sunday, November 24, 2002 - 03:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Anyone else think that second logo looks a bit like the WYD logo?

I want to add: although I don't think the logo change or name change is a good idea (mark my name down if someone's keeping track) we should not forget that we ARE first aid. Well trained first aid, mind you, but first aid nonetheless. And I realize nobody is suggesting it yet, but let's not call ourselves "St. John Emergency Medical Services" because we're NOT medical aid (if you think we are go read Chapter 1, FOTS for a definition of medical aid).

If you notice on real Paramedic vehicles the word "ambulance" is getting smaller and disappearing and the word "Paramedic" is getting bigger and more prominent. This would indicate to me that Paramedics are favouring "Paramedic" over "Ambulance".

I agree that we must resemble emergency services to be treated professionally on duty, but we must also walk a fine line and not tread toward misrepresentation.

Oh, and one more thing... I'm not giving up my "black and whites"; that is, my uniform.
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D. E. (Dean) Lenz, SBStJ
Member
Username: Dlenz

Post Number: 13
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Sunday, November 24, 2002 - 11:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good comments Mike. I would add but a few notes..."technically" by some dictionary definations, a Paramedic is "anyone related in a support capacity to medical aid".

Geez, that sounds like us?!? It also sounds like the custodian at the hospital. Hmmm, a "custodial engineer" now known as a "paramedic custodian"? Yikes I shudder. Equally so, don't think that I want us to be called paramedics or for us to be confused with such, unless a member is professionaly certified as one.

Also, we are certainly not "medical aid" by the definitions I have read but think of the phrase, "pre-hospital care provider" which is sometimes with reference to ambulance paramedics. We do in theory, meet that description as well...as we do provide care prior to the hospital.

Having said that, I am proud of the work that I do with St. John Ambulance, and find nothing wrong with the name and its affiliation to the medical/health care field. I see no reason to change the name, when changing it, I think, will not improve the "negatives" that were listed as concerns by the transformation team. It is purely superficial.

Look at the care provided across our Country by the "Medical Venturer's" program. Some have skills that are no different than ours. They seem to have name that is suitably linked to their role.

Melissa (in post #4 of this thread) speaks eloquently about the term "Ambulance" being "ours" well before it referenced a four wheeled vehicle which transports sick and injured.

Don't mess with the best...and don't kid yourselves, St. John Ambulance is the best.
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Catherine MacKay
Junior Member
Username: Cmackay

Post Number: 9
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Tuesday, November 26, 2002 - 03:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yes, if someone is keeping track, I do not like the changes. I agree that we need to boost our image, but I think we will lose big time if we change that much. We have a history, and I think they should be using that, not something totally new.
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Eric From Oshawa
New member
Username: Zman

Post Number: 2
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Saturday, November 30, 2002 - 12:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am from oshawa, and i feel proud to wear the St. John Ambulance logo, it means more than just an image. It stands for what we believe in, which is health, saftey, and fun! Changing the logo that so many of us have come to respect, and to be proud of, would be wrong. Let's not lose our past, just for the sake of making us look high-tech.
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Shannon Cooper
Junior Member
Username: Trainer261

Post Number: 7
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Wednesday, December 04, 2002 - 06:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We have been St John Ambulance for how long now and i believe that if we were to change our name now it would cause more confusion in the long run. I just got back from my divisional training meeting and we were talking about how unprofessional we sound as it is. Our uniform in Ottawa is the black and whites as usual but our windbreakers have first aid written on the back in huge letters. We all ready have problems with the public not wanting to hand over to us because "they have the course" not realizing that the Brigade is so much more than just the "course". If we were to change the name how will our image change? For the better more professional image? I think not. Second of all who are we to start messing around with the maltise cross? There has been nothing wrong with it for the last NINE HUNDRED years that we've used it. My emphasis obviously is on the 900. Don't mess with history!!!!!! The whole black sheep thing is acurate. We have a bad PR problem within our own country but please let's alienate the entire world in the process. Does anyone have someone that we can contact to protest this? We would like to start a petition here and if it does go through bye-bye brigade.
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Victoria Joan Robinson
Junior Member
Username: V_robinson

Post Number: 10
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Wednesday, December 04, 2002 - 09:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

is it justme, or do they look like those suppose this cause ribbons?? that and the cross has meaning, and symbolism, does it not?
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Saskia Wilson
Member
Username: Saskia

Post Number: 15
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Sunday, December 08, 2002 - 04:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

hmmm...what about in the prayer it says something to the effect of "and its whiteness is the emblem of purity required in those who fight for the defence of the poor and suffering" i think thats how it goes...Are they going to the change "and its whiteness" to "and its pinkness" ?
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richard gammon
New member
Username: Richard

Post Number: 4
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Tuesday, December 10, 2002 - 06:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

all i have to say is i don't think it should be changed beacuse saskia has a very good point and the idea vicki had should be carried out
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Chris Thomas
New member
Username: Cthomas

Post Number: 1
Registered: 12-2002
Posted on Tuesday, December 17, 2002 - 10:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In the almost 11 years I have been involved with SJA I have seen many ups and downs with our reputation, not only in the publics eye but also in the eye of other allied health, medical and safety organizations and services. I believe we need more quality control and we definitely need to improve our structure and organization and keep up with the ever-growing advancements related to first aid and pre-hospital care. We have managed to stick around for hundreds of years with the same name and logo, and except for the Canadian version of the logo has a jagged maple leaf which is only patriotic, we are not the only St. John Ambulance in the world and why should we make ourselves look any more different? I’m proud to say to others that we, St. John Ambulance invented first aid, we developed first aid and without us, first aid would not be what it is today. We are St. John Ambulance we have been for 900 years! All we need is to increase our standards, maybe make our uniforms a little more modern and comfotable and more work friendly. Keep the dress uniforms for formal events, but jumpsuits and polo type uniforms are comfortable and wow, do those white shirts get dirty easily! But consider this, the logo the patches, decals, letterhead, websites, pamphlets, video tapes etc., come on, I bet you can think of a thousand things we would literally need millions of dollars to replace just for a lousy name and logo. Yep, real smart, that solves the problem! Well, actually no it doesn’t. Another point is the fact that we ARE an emergency service, a volunteer maybe, but is a situation where first aid is required not an emergency and do we not provide a service for when this happens? Yes, We do Hence the name emergency service. We are not medical professionals but some of you will also agree with me that our advanced first aid is virtually the equivilent to the American EMT Basic standards if not higher and do they not receive recognition as emergency medical services? They are nothing more than paid advanced first aiders or first responders. I have seen both places Canada and the States. I would have to say some of our members really do show higher skills and training than the American standards for EMS. Whether paid or not, whether run by a government or a municipality, we still provide a service in which our mottos both historic and present represent. Please folks; lets not grieve over the past. Instead lets all share our ideas on how we can even better work together to make St. John Ambulance even better than it ever has been. It doesn’t take much, just cooperation, time and effort. :-)

P.S. - If anyone would like to talk to me more about this issue or just St. John in general my msn address is medic1073@hotmail.com and my ICQ # is 109889693.

Yours truly in St. John Ambulance,

Chris Thomas
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Melissa Ying
Member
Username: Mying

Post Number: 11
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Tuesday, December 17, 2002 - 10:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sorry guys, it's driving me batty. St. John Ambulance hasn't been around for 900 years. The Order of St. John has. St. John Ambulance has been around officially only since 1877, although the name was already being used to describe the stretcher and first aid courses already being taught under the Order of St. John for a few years before then.

It doesn't matter though. 135 years isn't anything to sneeze at either.
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Dean Lenz, EMDMgr, SBStJ
Advanced Member
Username: Dlenz

Post Number: 33
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Thursday, January 02, 2003 - 12:56 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Regardless, we need to consider that in reviewing the posts here it would appear almost every one of us (of the post's) indicate that they are NOT in favor of a change in the name or logo. I would strongly suggest that our voices be heard outside of this forum. The best thing you can do is have your members register on cadetsonline and post their thoughts too. If we don't speak now, we will be contributing to the change by lack of action as a person(s) opposed to the change.

Again, I don't fault anyone for WANTING to change but would rather see our (the organization) efforts focused on changing things that WILL make a difference, not just superficial changes.

Take care.
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Tyler Mancuso
Intermediate Member
Username: Tmancuso

Post Number: 22
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Wednesday, January 08, 2003 - 08:34 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hay everyone,
go check out the intranet under the new posts, check out the two power point presentations on the new logo issue... Obviously NHQ has a little too much time and money on their hands...

I just dont understand why you have to change something that is working fine... its marketing we need to work on, not rebranding...

anyways if you don't have a intranet login, email rgore@nhq.sja.ca and ask for one! then check it out and post here what you think!
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Dean Lenz, EMDMgr, SBStJ
Advanced Member
Username: Dlenz

Post Number: 39
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Thursday, January 09, 2003 - 02:11 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Tyler, great idea...just looked at the two presentations myself. They are VERY interesting.

Did you notice that we, CANADA, are the only group, that I noticed, who has messed with the Cross!

I am sad to say that I cannot understand why we must be so different from the rest. The presentation speaks of a great idea, ONE NAME - ONE BRAND and I think that this is a POSITIVE idea, however if the brand is either of the "suggested" Canadian entries (see my post - the second one on this thread) I would be inclined to vote against it.

The last slide of Presentation 1 shows two logos (the New Zealand) and the "weird-I-never-knew-it-had-been-adopted" one and I must say to choose one there would be no contest, the New Zealand one would win!
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Melissa Ying
Intermediate Member
Username: Mying

Post Number: 16
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Thursday, January 09, 2003 - 11:06 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Unfortunately, I don't think the people who need to hear what you have to say read this forum.

I don't know who exactly you should direct your opinions to -- me, I'd just scour the national website http://www.sja.ca until I find an email address or three that looked like they might be involved, and sent it. I'm sure they all talk to each other anyways.

Just a thought. Get heard.
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Tyler Mancuso
Intermediate Member
Username: Tmancuso

Post Number: 23
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Thursday, January 09, 2003 - 11:20 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am not sure if the prov. commissioner is aware of this post, so I am going to drop her a line with it, and suggest that this link be sent to national so they can see what the members of St. John Think!
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Dean Lenz, EMDMgr, SBStJ
Advanced Member
Username: Dlenz

Post Number: 40
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Sunday, January 12, 2003 - 03:21 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

DID YOU KNOW - MAY 2001 VOL. 8 NO. 5 reads, and I quote:

Ownership of trademarks depends on using them correctly. You should always use the official master artwork supplied by NHQ to reproduce any trademark. Digital artwork for the SJA logos can be obtained from the Marketing folder on the St. John INTRAnet site. Do not alter them in any way.

The St. John Ambulance trademark can be used with a slogan or a secondary logo but cannot be manipulated, distorted or obscured.

The maltese cross in the black roundel, surrounded by the maple leaf - the corporate logo of St. John Ambulance in Canada - is a trademark.

This trademark is registered by the Priory of Canada of the Most Venerable Order of St. John of Jerusalem AND is the only logo to be used in connection with the operation of St. John Ambulance.
--------------------------------------------------
Well I like paragraph 2 -

BUT CANNOT BE MANIPULATED, DISTORTED OR OBSCURED

Last time I looked, both the "wonderful selections" that were provided have been 1) manipulated, 2) distorted and one was even 3) obscured.

Hmmmm, me thinks we will have to look at something else....like leaving our current logo in place/in tact.

Cheers all...
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Jennifer Goyer
New member
Username: Army

Post Number: 3
Registered: 01-2003
Posted on Saturday, February 01, 2003 - 01:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Our symbol and colours mark a tradition in the organization , even a heartidge, I agree with mike it looks like a world youth day shirt. they should leave the uniform and emblam alone. When the changes the military combats they did not changed the style they change the colour and put a design in them. even though St. John is not 1000 years old there was a tradition established and if they changed it they threw a peice of history away
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Mike Rumble, RPN
Senior Member
Username: Mrumble

Post Number: 49
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Sunday, February 02, 2003 - 06:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank god someone agrees with me!!!! I was beginning to think I was the only one who saw the similarity! :-)
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Alan Chan
New member
Username: Achan

Post Number: 1
Registered: 01-2003
Posted on Monday, February 03, 2003 - 12:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think that the new logo has some style to it but please DO"NT CHANGE IT....We are known as ST. JOHN AMBULANCE, and this name remained ALL OVER the WORLD>..therefore, we shouldn't change the name. Although we should enlarge the St. John Cross to make us stand out more. There are many security companies that have similar uniforms and I think we should stand out from them.
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Alan Chan
New member
Username: Achan

Post Number: 2
Registered: 01-2003
Posted on Monday, February 03, 2003 - 12:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here is another thought.....
Hmm, I wonder how much it would cost to re-market the logo, re-patch all the uniform, re-do all the mobiles, re-decorate all the stationaries and building components...blah blah...I think it may be more effective to just order a bigger St. John Cross from England OR buy a few sedans and stripe them such that they could be driven more around the different cities in which we have presence and let the public know we are there and promote our image as one of the top medical/ first aid community services around. And as previously quoted, our logo should not be tempered or manipulated in anyway....
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Rick Patterson
Senior Member
Username: Rick_patterson

Post Number: 78
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Tuesday, February 04, 2003 - 09:21 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I'm really wondering why we are the only Commonwealth nation that seems to be having to mess around with designs and the like. Maybe instead of reinventing the wheel, maybe we should be asking these countries how they are able to keep going without wasting money one reorganistion and re branding and all of these resorce wasting follies.
I believe there is a problemand it is not with the volunteers , I think the problem is with the people that have been entrusted with the sterwardship ship of St. John Ambulance in Canada
Once again ,just my thoughts
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Michael Lawrence, RN, BScN
Junior Member
Username: Spud

Post Number: 7
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Tuesday, February 04, 2003 - 01:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Actually, other countries may not have changed the logo as much, but some including England and New Zealand in the last few years have endeavoured to "rebrand"... ie. to put their name out there again. Both England and New Zealand, as examples revamped the striping and appearance of their vehicles, as well as identified key areas to put focus on their business in order to support their community services.

I do not disagree that the new logo choices are a bit, shall we say, awkward looking. However, I do think that is well past time to take another hard look at our organisation and attempt to rebrand ourselves and perhaps identify those key areas we should be focusing on. Remember, that not all areas of Canada deliver the same services nor the same training. In fact, there are distinct differences even within provinces and even districts! St. John is a very large non-profit organisation with diverse interests and involvements, and it is not an easy task to develop a National strategy. And sometimes change is good... even if it doesn't feel right at the time.

I personally like our logo, but wouldn't mind seeing updated, standardized uniforms, maybe new striping on vehicles, and perhaps a well thought out national (or at least provincial) marketing strategy. However, this is only one piece of the pie!

Respectfully submitted,

Michael Lawrence
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Tyler Mancuso
Intermediate Member
Username: Tmancuso

Post Number: 24
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 08:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Everyone should check out the re-branding section on the intranet again, they just posted another branding idea... you thought the last graphic designs were bad, check these out!
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Don Smith
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 115
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 08:53 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh my!
This is my personal 28 year bias; but I am getting a headache looking at the variety of suggestions that are being made in Tyler's reference January 27, 2003 release of what appears to now be an International St. John push for re-branding. I think the lion's share of their suggestions (mind my pun) are horrible and appear to move towards removing so much of what we have? for what measureable goal?

Time will tell...
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Alan Chan
New member
Username: Achan

Post Number: 4
Registered: 01-2003
Posted on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 12:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sorry, can someone post the image on this discussion board, I still don't have access to SK intranet yet.
Thanks
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Johnson Lai
Intermediate Member
Username: Gundam

Post Number: 23
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 12:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My gosh! What strange designs! Who voted for taking those lovely beasts out of the symbol?! I love those small 4 beasts... boo hoo...

Looks like children drew some of those designs there. I don't like that CANADA proposed symbol, looks like Canadian SJA is "peeling" off !!

One thing I must say is, the company we hired to present this did a lot of work in their slideshows. Quite professional.

How about this for our new SJA worldwide symbol. A BIG circle with the letter "J" inside?

(Disclaimer: any resemblance to my first name is purely coincidental)
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Alan Chan
New member
Username: Achan

Post Number: 5
Registered: 01-2003
Posted on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 01:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hmm..during my spare time, I used a picture from Crestline's website and re-striped it with a design of mine. THis is my first try so it may look ugly. It is partially inspired by the Toronto EMS new design......

Thanks, and I welcome comments.
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Tyler Mancuso
Intermediate Member
Username: Tmancuso

Post Number: 25
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 01:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Lets Leave the Trucks how they are!
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Rick Patterson
Senior Member
Username: Rick_patterson

Post Number: 79
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 01:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I can just imagine some of the grafitti that would be put beside the F and the A , maybe I have an over active imagination. I think the Lime/ yellow green that's used in the U.k would be a better colour for the vehicles, lets face it ,it would stand out.
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Saskia Wilson
Senior Member
Username: Saskia

Post Number: 44
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 02:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

eeeeeewwwwww lime green and yellow!? it would definetally stand out..lets not give anyone any ideas they might actually decide to do that
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Tyler Mancuso
Intermediate Member
Username: Tmancuso

Post Number: 26
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 02:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't know about everyone else, but I think our striping is fine, just take off the Mobile First Aid Post :-), put the word ambulance on the front and back so people know what St. John is! and leave well enough alone, just like the logo!

P.S. Saskia, I agree, don't let national find out that idea, they might just adopt it!
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Melissa Ying
Intermediate Member
Username: Mying

Post Number: 20
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 02:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

First, in response to some recent posts:

Yellow/green is the colour of EMS in most of Europe, that's why it's on the SJA vehicles.

The majority of our vehicles are not always staffed as ambulances.

Alan, don't be giving anyone any ideas! Fortunately, they won't adopt your suggestion... you used the word "Ambulance". :P (And "Brigade", which is obsolete according to Province; it's also out of use in England).

Second, some more general ranting on the subject from me:

Don't forget they already changed our logo once, putting the maple leaf around it. Canada's always been the different one. I'm not saying it's right, just it will lend weight to all of our arguments to be basing it on fact and not assumption.

The presentation is pretty but it confused me. On one hand they say we need to develop a more unified international presence. Absolutely! I agree! And if that meant a new logo for everyone, do it! Don't hesitate! I think the Canadian arm of SJA already suffers the worst public image of all the countries, in part because we are so overwhelmed by American media that we never see any "of our own" getting free press the way they do in Australia and England.

But... then this logo they're suggesting is only for Canada? Well, then, they just contradicted themselves. We need a new, even more deviant from international norm, logo like we need a hole in the proverbial head. Or wait, do we already have one of those?

Again, I want to stress. Be informed, and be heard. Use the contact names on the www.sja.ca website to send out what you want to say. You never know, somebody might actually listen. Ask them, how much money did they spend on this marketing consultant company? And where should that money have been spent? Why are they so allergic to using the resources and ideas being offered by St. John's biggest fans and promoters, the volunteers?
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Don Smith
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 116
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 03:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Indeed, Melissa, "...Don't forget they already changed our logo once, putting the maple leaf around it. Canada's always been the different one. ..."

And I must say that I don't recall anyone having difficulty for this Canadian piece of simple class that our Priory added to the logo some years ago... did it remove the historical significance and recognition of our worldwide logo, white cross on black border... no... I personally saw that change as an improvement and allowed for some Canadian identity to the logo... what I see now, in my opinion, doesn't even compare to what they are playing with right now.

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Rick Patterson
Senior Member
Username: Rick_patterson

Post Number: 80
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 03:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

after visiting the National site and looking at the presentation about t trying to have one international symbol I have a couple of questions . When did we accept the intertwined maltese cross as our new symbol?
Also Who is coming up with some of these designs?
And as it's going we won't be known at duties as the ambulance people or St. John's anymore. Maybe we could get people to adopt new names to go with the branding change ...hmmm maybe we could be the saints or maybe johns.
I know it would work out great because at least once at a duty someone is looking for the Johns and when we do first aid we've been called saints.
Sorry for being cynical but I really believe this whole excercise is only making the marketing companies we've hired richer.
Once again just my thoughts.
P.s How about renaming the posts First Aid Reaction Terminals and every unit could have one. Sorry couldnt resist (and I like lime/yellow green) it would go good with the new name
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Melissa Ying
Intermediate Member
Username: Mying

Post Number: 21
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 03:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Let us give credit where it is due. I doubt there are many St. Johner's out there (in Ontario) who would argue with this interpretation of what really fuels St. John (or, specifically, fuels the volunteers that fuel St. John).
I suggest this as our new vehicle:

St. Tim's Ambulance
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Alan Chan
Junior Member
Username: Achan

Post Number: 6
Registered: 01-2003
Posted on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 06:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wow, not bad......and funny too!

As a matter of fact, referring to the earilier posts....I was at EMS HQ in Toronto learning how to drive the mobiles, and on the easle in the front door, it writes:

John School | St. Johns
To the Left | 2nd Floor

or something similar.....
I actually have another design and it doesn't have the FA on it for any potential "crteative" people. However, I take it that we should leave the markings as it is, unless someone specifically wants me to..... :-)

Oh, I put the word Brigade just for fun, St. John Ambulance Community Service is too long......
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Tyler Mancuso
Intermediate Member
Username: Tmancuso

Post Number: 27
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Wednesday, February 05, 2003 - 07:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Very nice ambulance design, don't let national see that, it is likely to be passed by next week :-)

Overall, our survey locally shows that people like our logo, both community and SJA members. They also like the name St. John Ambulance... why change something that can be such an effective marketing term if done right.... anyways, thats just my 2 cents....

I had suggested this link be sent to national so they can hear what we have to say, but the prov. commissioner assured me that this logo change thing is on the back burner at national for now as they have other things to deal with, however i received that email before the last posting in the intranet, so is it really on the back burner????

One thing I would agree with is a change in our patch... NOT the logo, but the design of the
patch, ours is too small, and too plain

I figured since everyone else was getting artistic...
Please excuse my horable colouring, etc. but at least something like this makes us look like something other than a security gaurd!
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Rick Patterson
Senior Member
Username: Rick_patterson

Post Number: 81
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Thursday, February 06, 2003 - 09:26 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wellif St. John Int'l gets their way there will be no red in our design and no green in the U.K design we will be back to black and white across the board.
I'm still wondering how come National put the intertwined symbol which has not been adopted in as the symbol of St. John Ambulance Canada.
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robert hong
New member
Username: Robert

Post Number: 1
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Friday, February 07, 2003 - 10:17 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

hi all, i find it very painful that canada is trying to change the logo. to something that means very little. i have just arrived from australia where i was a grade V officer, Divisonal nurse. in australia, our favourite national staff changed logo and then cut the word ambulance from the signage. except in the middle of a the logo, where it is very small. so if you to quickly look at a st john sign you only see "ST JOHN". futher more they to want to go to "ST JOHN - FIRST IN FIRST AID". one of our divisional vechiles is signed that way. we are fighting to get the "ambulance" put back in.

i agree that st john is an international body, therfore we should at least keep the name and essence of st john the same. that means black and white uniforms and the word ambulance. the white cross and +- beasties.

i encourage you all to make your voices heard to the fact "ST JOHN AMBULANCE" has a meaning that many PR that do not wear the uniform, do not understand.

furthermore, i arrived in toronto on jan 1. how many divisons are there in toronto. i made contact with wellesley st, and got an info session feb10. i do not find that very welcoming and encouraging someone to join. to be told to just come along then. especially when i have been in st john for 8 years in australia and new to the country. it almost makes me think why; why join when they make me wait over a month to meet anyone and get my transfer in. however enough of that, iam still lokking forward to st john in canada; so can anyone tell me the goss, before i go.

thanks,
ROBERT HONG RN (roberthong76@hotmail.com)
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Saskia Wilson
Senior Member
Username: Saskia

Post Number: 45
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Friday, February 07, 2003 - 12:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

LOL!!! OMG! that tim's ambulance is SO us, LOL. good job putting that one together wish i had the computer ability to put somethin together
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Adam Prieur
New member
Username: Beanmedic

Post Number: 5
Registered: 01-2003
Posted on Friday, February 07, 2003 - 12:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

how would one get onto the intranet to view these new deisgns?
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Tyler Mancuso
Advanced Member
Username: Tmancuso

Post Number: 31
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Friday, February 07, 2003 - 08:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

you used to email richard gore at rgore@nhq.sja.ca however i was just informed by somoeone at national he is no longer with SJA>.. they said email support@nhq.sja.ca however that email does not work, so as soon as i here back i will post it here so you can get access to the intranet... if anyone else knows of who to contact now please advise
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Paul W. J. Irwin
Junior Member
Username: Pirwin

Post Number: 6
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Saturday, February 08, 2003 - 06:41 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Robert:

If you would like to get in touch with one of the main RN's in SJA Toronto, then contact David Bain, RNP. He would welcome new Nursing Family to the District. Perhaps He may even be available to attend the information session that you have been invited to attend. Although I am a past Toronto Member, I only know of the current status from speaking with friends. The information session, much like those offered for organizations like the R.C.M.P., are a good place to start. See the web site as well: http://www.sja.ca/toronto/brigade/

As to the re-branding, I am all for keeping the word "ambulance" in our name and logo's that apply to that part of our Family. The words "first aid", may well benefit our ability to sell ourselves to the public, for the purposes of those words, and still allow use to welcome them to become part of the "Community Services" side of our organization that offers that, and more. If we lost "ambulance", I think we could loose out in our effectiveness in offering para-medicine programs, through the Maritime School of Paramedicine, http://msop.ca

We have a proud history, so part of that history needs to be preserved to enable us to deliver the Community Services that we do.

Those are a few of my thoughts.

© "BE GOOD ALL DAY"
Paul W. J. Irwin, BTS-2/E
Emergency Planning Officer, Central Ontario District
St. John Ambulance, Community Services
My web card and calendar: www.ureach.com/pwjirwin
email: PIrwin@on.sja.ca
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Tyler Mancuso
Advanced Member
Username: Tmancuso

Post Number: 40
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Saturday, March 01, 2003 - 12:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I just recived a lengthy response from national regarding the re-branding and they suggested i share it will all that posted here... Happy Reading.

Who started the process?

As required by our Strategic Plan, Priory Council approved a Business Plan and Budget for 2001 which included a major research project to “identify the best market position for St. John Ambulance and provide a strategy and a plan to attain this position.”



Who did the research and when was it done?

GPC Research, a division of GPC International, a public affairs and communications consulting firm, was retained to conduct the initial research in January and February 2001.

The purpose of the research was to gauge internal and public perceptions of the organization, its programs, services, public image etc.



How was this accomplished?

· A series of focus groups with volunteer and paid staff within St. John Ambulance. Twelve groups were conducted, two hours each in length, in six locations across Canada: Dartmouth, Montreal, Toronto, Ottawa, Edmonton and Vancouver. Individuals from other locations outside these centers were invited to participate in the focus groups via conference call;

· A nationwide telephone survey of the general population and donor base to St. John Ambulance. A total of 1,251 interviews were completed; and

· One-on-one interviews with corporate and government clients, sponsors, community groups and other stakeholders. A total of 72 interviews were undertaken.



What did the research find?

Here is a snapshot of the findings. (The full research report can be found on the SJA Intranet site.)

Findings – Volunteer and Staff
· Dedicated and committed to the organization

· Recognize need for change

· Somewhat reluctant to consider radical changes

· Do not want to lose tradition

· Volunteers see little evidence that the organization is poised to succeed into the 21st century

· See the disconnect between the Brigade and training sectors

· Feel strong commitment to the organization, but are frustrated by the lack of strong public recognition

Findings – Customers and Public
· See SJA’s greatest strength to be in first aid training

· Recognize SJA as being committed to being helpful

· Lack of marketing and communication between SJA and its clientele

· Course format is inflexible

· Poor client-servicing – no perceived value-added

· See the organization as being ‘stuck in the past’

· Expressed need for product refills, F/A station inspections, workplace wellness programs and other types of F/A supplies



So what does this mean?

Essentially, what this research showed us was that St. John Ambulance needs an overall image revitalization and branding redefinition, to move us into the 21st century. Though the organization enjoys high awareness, the research illustrated that the organization suffers from public’s confusion regarding its product and service offerings. The perception is not aligned with how we wish to be perceived. SJA is seen as an organization that is bureaucratic, military, rigid, traditional and Autocratic. On a positive note SJA is also seen as being caring, dedicated and knowledgeable. Priory Council concluded that we must move ahead on this critical matter.


What did we do with the research?
GPC International developed a marketing and branding strategy that would serve as a guide for St. John Ambulance to become a market-oriented organization. This strategy lays out the necessary steps the organization would have to take to improve its client-servicing and marketability (elements identified in the research as being our weak spots, but which are critical to our long-term survival).



•SJA is known for first aid and CPR (first aid is defined broadly, and is not limited to SJA’s current Emergency and Standard courses )

•SJA owns the largest market share of the first aid and CPR training markets

•SJA generates the majority of its revenue through first aid and CPR

•First aid and CPR plays an important role in society…even more so given the current environment

•There appear to be even further growth opportunities/revenues for first aid and CPR in Canada

•Effective promotion of the benefits of first aid and CPR has the opportunity to increase the donor and volunteer base for SJA and act as a platform for SJA to undertake further charitable programs and grow other business areas.



What is a Brand?

•A brand is a promise.

•It doesn’t exist in a document, or a boardroom, or a sign on a building.

•It only exists in your audiences’ minds.

•A brand is not a logo. Logos are badges for brands.

•A brand is not an ad. Ads are the voices of brands.

•A brand is an organizations’ attributes, traits and promises.

•A brand is how people perceive and define you.

•A brand calls forth everything that is essential about you.

•Ultimately, a brand defines an organization/product/service based on its strengths, uniqueness and key competitive advantage.

•It is what makes one proud to be associated with a particular organization or group.



Branding Strategy

•SJA should focus on its core strengths as a first aid and CPR based organization.

•SJA should focus its service offering and marketing efforts on first aid and CPR training courses, products and community service. By focusing on its core strengths, SJA will have a clearer image with its publics. The focus will not limit the organization to first aid and CPR, rather, it will highlight these strengths and solidify its image with the Canadian public. SJA currently suffers from a lack of image – it is perceived as trying to be ‘everything to everyone’.

•SJA should ‘own’ first aid and CPR in the publics’ mind and ‘brand’ the benefits of first aid and CPR to society.

•All marketing/communications material, including messages and the creative images, should be constructed to reflect the benefits of first aid and CPR. In doing so, SJA will create more demand for its first aid and CPR related services and products with all of its target audiences.

•The re-branding of the organization will create a higher profile and awareness of the important contribution played by community services. It will clarify the publics’ current confusion of the community service role and highlight the volunteer service commitment.


Brand Attributes

Throughout all marketing and communications elements, attributes used to define SJA will include:

•First aid

•CPR

•Caring

•Quality

•Reputable

•Traditional, yet innovative

•Market-leader



The Importance of Marketing

The first step of the marketing strategy was to review and identify SJA’s image and perform a Strengths, Weaknesses, Opportunities and Threats (SWOT) analysis, based on market research. Subsequently, a brand for the organization was developed based on its key strengths and unique selling proposition.



The marketing plan identifies SJA’s target audiences and develops strategies to reach them and effectively communicate the new brand as well as position its services and products for optimum demand.



Target Audiences

•Internal

•regional branches and councils

•volunteers

•staff

•External

•general public (with emphasis on adults aged 30-44, and $40,000 - 60,000 income)

•customers of first aid and CPR services

•donors (emphasis on 35-64, university-educated, higher-income individuals)

•retailers of SJA product lines



Internal Communications Plan

Strategy

•Establish an Internal Task Force, comprised of SJA champions

•Establish a process by which the organization will decide on and implement change

•Develop message platform

•Develop a tactical approach

•Undertake regional seminars

•Organize a conference for representatives of SJA volunteers, staff and stakeholders

•Provide regular updates through newsletters and emails

•Develop an intranet site dedicated to this “change” process

•“One voice, one message, one outcome”



External Marketing Plan

Strategy

•Create a National Marketing Committee comprised of NHQ and regional representatives responsible for:

•improving current client services and reinforcing our business

•identifying marketing opportunities for services and products

•developing marketing tools and tactics for national and regional implementation

•ensuring synergies and consistency of the key message platforms from coast-to-coast

•Change the organization from being ‘product oriented’ to ‘market oriented’ - focus on customer needs and the benefits to them

•Create a national umbrella campaign designed to brand first aid/CPR and profile SJA with the general public

•Create a specific sub-campaign targeted towards workplace customers



Umbrella Campaign - General Public

Goal

•Brand first aid and CPR

•Reposition SJA

•Increase sales of first aid/CPR courses and products with the public

•Attract volunteers and donors to the organization

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Tyler Mancuso
Senior Member
Username: Tmancuso

Post Number: 41
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Saturday, March 01, 2003 - 12:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Part 2
Messages

•First aid and CPR saves lives

•SJA provides Canadians with first aid and CPR services, products and volunteers at events

•Be prepared for any emergency situation - take a first aid/CPR course and have first aid products in your household

•SJA is a charitable organization dedicated to helping our communities by training people to save lives

Strategy

•The umbrella campaign should focus on real life stories of how first aid and/or CPR saves people’s lives and should include:

•media relations

•advertising (public service announcements)

•promotions

•interactive marketing (web site)

•The campaign would highlight the benefits of first aid and CPR on society - it’s about saving lives

•It should position SJA as the prominent provider of first aid and CPR services in Canada - real life testimonials will back this up




What happened with the ‘plan’?
This plan was presented at the Strategic Retreat for Priory Council and Executive Directors in 2001. At that time, the plan was modified and approved in principle. The plan was then taken to Priory council for final approval during the November Priory Council meeting.



November 2001

Priory Council approves Marketing & Communications Plan, based on Marketing/Branding Discussion Paper, and related budget for 2002. The plan included:


December 2001

As the first step to developing a new logo and visual identity to take SJA into the future SJA contacted PJDDB Vancouver regarding opportunity to provide creative services for re-branding. The objective was to retain the history and tradition that our organization has visually established in the past. Evolve the Maltese cross at the centre of our logo and develop a new logo this is dynamic, modern and contemporary and approachable while still being recognizable as SJA.


February 2002

SJA staff met with PJDDB to discuss re-branding initiative; SJA contracted services of Change Consultant


March 2002

SJA developed SJA Transformation Team as a mechanism to establish horizontal communications and to develop internal champions for transformation


April 2002

Transformation team met in Ottawa; PJDDB developed creative brief (road map); EDMT signed-off creative brief; Renewed Marketing Working Group met to review creative brief and provide input; PJDDB began creative development


May 2002

PJDDB presented corporate identity strategy and creative concepts to Marketing Working Group for feedback and selection of four concepts for presentation to EDMT; presentation to EDMT with feedback for revisions. Presentation to Transformation Team for feedback


June 2002

Concepts were revised by PJDDB and presented to focus group by GPC – internal and external stakeholders; feedback was presented to EDMT with recommendations based on focus group feedback; EDMT selected two concepts to be presented to Priory Council; Concepts presented to Priory Council; Priory Council requested opportunity for reflection and presentation of Logo A and B to boards; Priory Council approved Communication Audit; NHQ distributed Tradition and Transformation Paper and concepts to Priory Council members for presentation to boards; NHQ distributed “St. John Canada Today – Growing Stronger to our Future” to St. John membership across Canada


July - September 2002

Priory Council members presented Logos A and B to Boards for preference; PJDDB conducts communication audit


September 2002

Brand Audit presentation and report to EDMT


October 2002

Council feedback: Logo B – 6, Logo A – 1,
Councils electing to choose neither logo – 3,
Neither logo but will go with majority - 1



When will the changes take place?
The change process is a long one, which will take between 3 and 5 years to implement fully. All changes will be phased-in gradually – internal changes will come into effect sooner than external ones, but the internal process itself is scheduled over 2 years.



When are we going to see affects?
The external public will most likely not see any significant changes for at least 2 years. Internally, we hope to move the process as quickly as our members, clients and volunteers demand, but it will take time for all of us to develop and prepare the required processes, infrastructure and materials needed to do this right.



What do these changes mean for SJA?
The purpose for the undertaking of the research and developing the marketing strategy was to reorient St. John Ambulance into a market-driven organization. All changes will be made with this goal in mind. Long-term effects of the re-branding initiative are to increase product and service sales, to increase the number of volunteers, donors (and donations), and to change public perceptions of the organization. This most recent research will serve as an excellent benchmark for gauging our progress in the future.



The results of the research studies and the re-branding plan and associated communications vehicles can be found in the Marketing Section of the SJA Intranet site.



If you wish to discuss this further please don’t hesitate to contact members of the transformation team or your council Marketing/Communications staff person.



Yours in St. John,

John Yauss

Co-Chair Marketing & Communications Working Group
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Dean Lenz, EMDMgr, SBStJ
Senior Member
Username: Dlenz

Post Number: 46
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Saturday, March 01, 2003 - 01:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sounds to me like they have made up our minds for us! While the meat of the article is of good substance and has merit, I am interested to note that they felt compelled to identify that the logo is not a brand, but rather a badge for a brand (to quote the article) and focussing on the re-branding shows us as needing to change that "badge"...without selling us on why the "badge" must change....re-brand, GREAT, re-badge...not great!

Thanks for the update Tyler, I am pleased to see that we can count on SOMEONE for information on this topic...I certainly haven't seen anything from anyone else (like the transformation team) except when I have hunted it down!

Take care.
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Rick Patterson
Senior Member
Username: Rick_patterson

Post Number: 84
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Saturday, March 01, 2003 - 03:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My question is this, how does this all fit in with the international plans to bring everyone under one symbol again? Does it mean that National has wasted a lot of money ?
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Johnson Lai
Senior Member
Username: Gundam

Post Number: 44
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Saturday, March 01, 2003 - 10:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Not sure if this is from the same group, but were these the people that cooked up the idea of SJE and SJA back a few years??

Which ended up another money wasting opportunity.
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Tyler Mancuso
Senior Member
Username: Tmancuso

Post Number: 42
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Sunday, March 02, 2003 - 07:03 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

you took the words out of my mouth! How much did we loose with that adventure??? It was over a million was it not...

Its going to be up there for a logo and name change, just think about every brigade members kit @$20.00 a bag, every KED, oxygen bag,trauma bag, etc. that we have labeled with "St. John AMbulance", every uniform shirt, sweater, etc that has our crest on it... not to mention restriping the ambulance... oh, just to add on a paint job as the white fades after about a year, so when you take the current striping off you will see the outline clearly... theres another thousand or so....

Another person on the committe responded back to my email, he gave similar responses as did the other one, however he was one of the brigade (oops community service) reps... I emailed him back asking if national was planning on paying for all of this, of course no response yet :-)

One thing i found kind of funny was that i got about five emails back instantly saying that _____ is no longer with SJA... didn't that happen when the committee for SJE realized it was going to flop???

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Johnson Lai
Senior Member
Username: Gundam

Post Number: 45
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Sunday, March 02, 2003 - 10:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hehe, must be some business strategy as such. Something my limited work experience hasn't given me the chance to learn yet.

When in a deficit, next year's plan: SPEND MORE MONEY.

Probably a budget and tax thing. If they don't spend more money for something new, then they loose the budget room for the year after?
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Brandy Muise
New member
Username: Brandytgaw

Post Number: 2
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Tuesday, March 04, 2003 - 10:35 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well I don't totally disagree with everything that they are trying to do. I mean, I've been in SJA for awhile and when I tell people about it they're always like "whats that?". We DO need to do some marketing and advertising, I agree. What I don't agree with is changing our uniform and our name. If we advertised and marketed ourselves as St.John Ambulance, would that not work almost the same as if we changed our name?? I think that changing our name would just be more confusing to everyone, and degrading to us. SJA is a part of who we are, and we are a part of SJA, without us, there wouldn't be a SJA. I really think that we should fight this to the end.
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john patrick Docherty
New member
Username: Jpdocherty

Post Number: 4
Registered: 05-2003
Posted on Saturday, May 24, 2003 - 08:41 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Just a few thoughts



application/mswordwho are we again
Who are we again stj.doc (20.5 k)
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Dean Lenz, EMDMgr, SBStJ
Senior Member
Username: Dlenz

Post Number: 56
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Saturday, May 24, 2003 - 03:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

John,

I was really moved by your thoughts in the attached document. You spoke very eloquently and echoed the sentiments of many. Well Done!

Time for us to speak up folks, let them know what we think!
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Tyler Mancuso
Senior Member
Username: Tmancuso

Post Number: 81
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Monday, May 26, 2003 - 01:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

SOME GOOD NEWS

Subject: Transformation Team

Webster's Encyclopedic Dictionary defines the word CONTRIBUTE as: to give, together with others, for a common purpose; to help bring something about. Your work with the Transformation Team has been a valued and recognized contribution to the work of St. John Ambulance in Canada.

As we discussed during the Building Our Future; The Way Forward meeting in April 2002, "Organizations are webs of participation. Change the participation and you change the organization". While we may understand the crucial role of multi-way effective communication in transformation change St. John Ambulance does not currently have the necessary resources or the proper structure to carry out an effective communication process involving a cross section of our members Canada-wide. The Transformation Team was perhaps "ahead of its time". With this in mind, we regret to inform you that the re-branding initiative is on hold and that the Transformation Team will be disbanded. There will be no teleconference as previously scheduled for March 21, 2003.

As you are aware, the IT project is "cleared for take-off" for fall 2003 implementation in Alberta Council and National Office. Effective development, implementation and communication of the IT system will be the focus of national office for the remainder of 2003. We encourage you to support the central registry system as it moves its way across the country. We will be counting on you to stimulate interest! If you find yourself at a loss for words to describe the system, remember Ian Robinson's creative airline analogy.

We hope that you will take away a positive experience and transferable skills from our work together. As one member of the team pointed out, "Participating in the Transformation Team weekend here in Ottawa was a revitalizing experience which renewed my enthusiasm and changed my attitude. This workshop demonstrated that while change is difficult it can also be invigorating".

You have been shining examples of the key elements of teamwork - we appreciate your enthusiasm, cooperation, participation, trust and respect. THANK YOU!

Best regards,
Transformation Team Co-Chairs
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Dean Lenz, EMDMgr, SBStJ
Senior Member
Username: Dlenz

Post Number: 57
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Monday, May 26, 2003 - 02:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Oh Tyler, no matter how "tentative" this might be...you have no idea how happy you have made a ton of people with your last post.

For now, it would appear that we have spoken our minds, and they have listened. Hopefully it will not be short lived.
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Mike Rumble, RPN
Senior Member
Username: Mrumble

Post Number: 84
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Monday, May 26, 2003 - 03:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

WOOOOHOOOO!!!!!!!!!! I can't stress enough how happy I am at this great news. Thanks for keeping us all updated, Tyler!
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Johnson Lai
Senior Member
Username: Gundam

Post Number: 106
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Tuesday, May 27, 2003 - 07:14 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hm... another project on hold. Hope the data they gathered will be used in the future.

Or another bunch of $$$$ wasted.
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john patrick Docherty
Junior Member
Username: Jpdocherty

Post Number: 6
Registered: 05-2003
Posted on Wednesday, May 28, 2003 - 08:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Glad someone woke up and smelt the coffee.
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William Woodstock
Senior Member
Username: Wwoodstock

Post Number: 151
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 06:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I know this is an old discussion, but I personally like the Ambulance design, and also the patch design. Although, I like the Ambulance design, I don't think many people would know what F A stands for.

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