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Don Tai
New member
Username: Dontai

Post Number: 1
Registered: 12-2002
Posted on Wednesday, December 11, 2002 - 12:21 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi There! I wonder if there are any "closet" adult patient care providers out there reading this site but never contributing? Please join me here.

My question is, now that I'm a BTS2, why do you need BTS2 training while on duty? I study BTS2 level material for personal education and preparedness, and it's been great to learn. But if you're on a duty without an ambulance, which is the case with most of our duties, you don't have O2, c-collars, OPAs, suction, spine boards, etc. Without the added equipment we're quite limited in using much of the BTS2 techniques. We only have our standard first-aid kits, and we add our personal BP cuffs and stethescopes.

Any thoughts?
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Eddy Wu
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Username: Ewu

Post Number: 2
Registered: 12-2002
Posted on Wednesday, December 11, 2002 - 03:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sure I totally agree with you. When you're on public duties without a mobile unit and advance equipments, your BTS2 seems to be useless but actually not since you can still applying the knowledge from BTS2 such as taking the BP. This is more for yourself and I'm sure you do feel more confident with your BTS2. Also BTS1 and non-BTS members do look for your skills as you are more advance than them.

Unfortunately some members use this BTS2 as a "show off". They think they are much better than the BTS1 or non-BTS members but in fact, they forgot all their basic skills and relay on the toys too much. This is what I observe from members challenging for their BTS2 as I'm a level 2 evaluator.

So yes, unless you got yourself an O2 kit as well as other toys with you and carry them to each duty you're covering, you can say it's useless but remember, even without those "toys", you still do apply your BTS2 knowledge and skills and when you've the toys, you know how to use them! That's the major difference.
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Melissa Ying
Junior Member
Username: Mying

Post Number: 9
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Wednesday, December 11, 2002 - 03:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The BTS-2 provider should have a much more detailed and comprehensive assessment of the patient. And even without toys, that is going to make a difference.

It is not something one has "instead" of BTS-1 skills, but in addition. 80% of a BTS-2 certification should be a 100% understanding and execution of BTS-1 knowledge and skills.
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Tyler Mancuso
Junior Member
Username: Tmancuso

Post Number: 6
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Friday, December 13, 2002 - 11:38 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi,

Just reading and thought i would ask a question... are there many duties that your divisions cover without the equipment. Up here no duty is covered without the vehicle, or a base post... Our Vehicle and base posts are all stocked to the MOH's stock requirements for a BLS ambulance(Back boards, O2, etc) We also use a tent, and when it is in service it is stocked the same as well....
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Mike Rumble, RPN
Advanced Member
Username: Mrumble

Post Number: 38
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Friday, December 13, 2002 - 01:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think it's great people would want to persue the BTS2 for personal as well as professional reasons. WE CAN NEVER NEVER NEVER STOP LEARNING. And yes, we need BTS2 for duty... let me tell you why (in terms of my division).

The division I'm attached to spends every weekend over the summer at motocross events. We have quite the reputation with the local Moto-X clubs for being good at what we do... EMS is also very supportive. The problem is, most local Moto-X tracks are in the middle of the country behind Farmer Joe's corn field and this causes significant delays in response time for EMS as they have to find us first. Even with proper 911 addresses it can take a while to find the right path through the corn maze. We have come to an agreement with local EMS that we are responsible for getting the patient from the track to the road... so yes, this means backboarding and transporting (on private property).

You can be stuck with a patient who has suffered a brain injury as a result of a bad accident for over 30 minutes. Those BTS2 skills come in handy then. If you can't immobilize and assess your patient, 30 minutes could be closer to 45 by the time the ambulance finds you.
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Don Tai
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Username: Dontai

Post Number: 4
Registered: 12-2002
Posted on Saturday, December 14, 2002 - 06:54 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Here in Scarborough, Toronto, ON we have large Toronto-wide duties that are covered by a vehicle such as the Molson Indy, Santa Claus Parade, Caribana, and CNE. Almost all other duties do not get a vehicle. At least this is what I see in my small area of Ontario.

For all our local events, we're only equipped with what we can carry in our first-aid fanny packs.
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Dayman Perry
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Username: Dozitwin

Post Number: 1
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Monday, December 23, 2002 - 09:00 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

The thing to remember about BTS level 2 is that the concern should not be whether or not you get to use the toys on duty or not. It's that if you have to your trainined to do so. Let's not forget that the most important factor is providing the highest patient care standards available for the genral public.

With respect to the items like collars, suction O2. My members carry portable oxygen kits that are equiped with manual suction, airways and collars.

In addition we encourage our BTS 1 members to take part in O2 training so that even without our BTS 2 members on duty the standard of care is maintained.

Remember training to a higher level is never bad for the public we are serving.
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Don Tai
Junior Member
Username: Dontai

Post Number: 6
Registered: 12-2002
Posted on Monday, December 23, 2002 - 02:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Dayman,
Do your members in St. Catharines carry portable O2 kits and collars without a vehicle/mobile first aid post? I've noticed that when private ambulance/transfer companies (CMR, AmbuTrans, and others) cover first aid duties they always have a jump kit and O2.

I think that O2 is good to have handy, whether you have a vehicle or not.
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Michael Lawrence, RN, BScN
New member
Username: Spud

Post Number: 5
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Monday, December 23, 2002 - 07:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Don,

I know my division in Mississauga always trys to have an O2 kit available to any members Oxygen trained (including our EMR and BTS2 members) with or without a vehicle. It may cost a few bucks to set up, but if your division can afford one (or start to fundraise for a couple kits with extra tanks) then you will have one of the most often used advanced first aid tools available to you when you don't have a vehicle. A well stocked first aid kit and a comprehensive oxygen kit will cover you for the majority of situations you will encounter on Brigade duty (no need for carrying spinal gear... I have only needed to apply collars on a handful of occasions in the last ten years - steady and support is often all you need, especially in Toronto where an ambulance is never more than ten minutes or less away).

Merry Christmas,
Michael Lawrence
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Shannon Cooper
Junior Member
Username: Trainer261

Post Number: 9
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Tuesday, December 24, 2002 - 04:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have to disagree with Mike R. on the need for BTS 2 on motocross duties. Here in Ottawa we cover the motocross as well and all of our members are only BTS1 qualified. What we require to cover the duty is that you have experience. I have been in the brigade for 6 years and have never attempted BTS2 and we do not look to the BTS2 members for assistance. We have separate courses for oxygen and blood pressure and AED. I have read the requirements for BTS2 and feel that there is no difference in the standards that I train at in the divsion and on my extra courses. But again I am in a different province than most of you so our standards are different. (Federal District [Ottawa] is considered separate than Ontario for some reason) For the attendant and driver courses that we run you have to know how to backboard and transport a casualty. I personally don't find a point in training to that level as we don't hand off to that member anyway. But again different areas have different standards. I think we only have 4 or 5 BTS2 members in Ottawa and they are all paramedics so I would hand over to them in a severe case no matter what their BTS rating is!!! I have to agree on the fact that higher training will never hurt anyone and we should never assume that we know everything. We have a problem here as well that as soon as you get the toys you forget the basics like your ABC's should always be checked before anything is done with the toys.
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Dayman Perry
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Username: Dozitwin

Post Number: 2
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Thursday, December 26, 2002 - 09:38 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Don,

To answer your question, yes our division (Niagara Falls) carries portable O2 kits even without the vehicle. We have 5 portable jump kits available to our members, 2 of which are equiped with a complete set of collars. As I said the goal for our division is to maintain the same high standard of care and ensuring that oxygen is availbe at all duties is one step. If you only have one or two kits you might have to set up a procedure for choosing which duties will get oxygen in cases where you have multiple duties. This is something we have had to evaluate with our AED program. As we currently have only one AED unit we have had to assess which duty we are more likely to need it at.
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Don Tai
Junior Member
Username: Dontai

Post Number: 8
Registered: 12-2002
Posted on Thursday, December 26, 2002 - 01:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks everyone for such useful information and candid opinions. I will bring up the idea of the purchase of O2 equipment for my division, Scarough 432. I'm not sure how much an O2 kit would cost. Can anyone estimate? And where do you pick one up?

As far as I know Toronto District only provides us with O2/jump kits with vehicles.

I've not heard of another Toronto division that has purchased their own O2 kits. If Niagara Falls and Mississauga have portable O2 kits, I guess we should take the initiative and be as well equipped.
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Tyler Mancuso
Intermediate Member
Username: Tmancuso

Post Number: 16
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Thursday, December 26, 2002 - 02:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi, we order them from Allied medical:

Bag (A1000) $235 I think
Contents: 1 x Ambu Regulator $115
BVM Adult Disposable - $29.95
BVM Paeds Disposable - $34.95
One Set Oral Airways - $6.10
5 x Each Size Nasal Airway - $ 5.45 each
5 x Lube Jelly - $.15ea
3 x Adult NRB Mask - $1.89 ea
3 x Paeds NRB Mask - $1.89 ea
2 x Nasal Cannula - #1.10 ea
1 x V-Vac and Accessories - $89.95 ea
1 x Adult Seal Easy Mask - $6.95 ea
1 x Adult B/P Cuff - $17.99 ea
1 x Scope - $39.99 ea

So the estimated total is:615.22

we carry more than that but this is the basic stock that would be a minimum in the Sault for a kit... hope this helps

If anyone knows somewere cheaper let me know as i need to order a few more kits
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Mike Rumble, RPN
Senior Member
Username: Mrumble

Post Number: 48
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Thursday, January 02, 2003 - 12:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I must apologize for the wording of my previous post. I did not mean to imply that "we need BTS2 for duty" as a minimum training level or that there should be at least one BTS2 on every duty (like the old BTS1 rule). Only that the BTS2 does provide a significant training standard that lends itself well to duty. "Need" equating to "don't get rid of BTS2". Shannon, you're doing what I used to do with my division... in service training for all thats needed. I agree with you, it works wonders for training to a higher level while maintaining the emphasis on the basics. It sounds like you already teach your members to the BTS2 standards... there should be no reason why your members can't achieve it. :-) The BTS2, like all "beyond the basics" training is not REQUIRED and just because you have it does not mean you're better than any other patient care provider out there. It should be an option for those who wish to persue it... a recognition for training hours completed.
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Saskia Wilson
Intermediate Member
Username: Saskia

Post Number: 28
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Thursday, January 02, 2003 - 05:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

We had one BTS2 Guy in our division..and i found that as soon as he got his level 2 he got a sever case of verbal diahrea, i think its a good thing to have level two because it shows how hard you've trainned but i have also found that when people obtain a higher level then everyone else they become cockey... but hey maybe this is just my divsion...
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Shannon Cooper
Member
Username: Trainer261

Post Number: 12
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Thursday, January 02, 2003 - 07:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Sorry if I came across rude earlier!!!! I did not mean to sound it. I just read my post and I think I needed a nap! lol We do train to the standards we just don't feel we need the pin to tell us we know what we are doing. Like Saskia said as soon as you get it some people get cocky and verbal diarhea and we don't want some of our members who are already like that to get worse!! lol The option is always there but we don't feel the need to do the testing. Again that is just our opinion. Also in Federal District to get your BTS2, you have to attend monthly trainings put on by our provincial training officer and we don't have the time to go and we don't feel like challenging the bap if we don't attend.
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Gordon Siu
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Username: Erdaemon

Post Number: 1
Registered: 04-2003
Posted on Friday, April 25, 2003 - 11:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, it's an interesting subject. A lot of members would question: if BTS1 is the minimum, and there's not really a whole of different if you achieve BTS2 (like double your salary 2x 0 = 0). A pass is a pass, not matter if it is a marginal pass or passing with high honours. However, it should go back to the fundamental question: Why would someone join the brigade? (aka community service unit these days). Some might want to join for the fame (looks good on resume and in uniform for some) or fortune (yes, spending your $ on gas and food while on duty). On the other hand, some might be actually joining with the goal to serve the community, without a court order I hope. They might be a rare bunch, but they are the most likely bunch to push for better and further training, for themselves or someone they care.
Traditionally, BTS1, as the minimum IPCP standard, are looking for members who had the "basic" knowledge and showing competency with reference to the national standard. We aren't asking too much, but there are members who would like to challenge the status quo situation and go for the distance.
Thus trainers might define any item beyond BTS1 under the BTS2 banner. Not because it is appropriate, but there just aren't anything out there which would provide any more appropriate evaluation criteria than BTS2. BTS2 itself, based on the printed standards posted under a different section on this site, isn't a whole lot more than BTS1. However, some evaluators just would not allow members to challenge BAP2 without the necessary training hours, as mentioned by Shannon. Not because the member in question doesn't have the skills, but BTS2 standard isn't just rely on skills alone.
It's fine and dandy that some divisions have "top of the line" equipment, but a BTS2 member should not only be able to make use of what's available (improvisation), but also to provide leadership role in rescue situation. That alone, should be the selling point of BTS2, and the true meaning of an advanced patient care provider. We are not just trying to train monkeys to go out on duties. We want proficient providers, who are good and comfortable with their skills, under most circumstances to provide the best care, to their own communities, where their families, relatives and friends might reside. Respect is not by appointment, it have to be earned. Putting in the hours for training meetings is one way to qualify for taking BAP2, but not the absolute way.
BTS2 training is supposed to provide further knowledge on both theoretical and practical skills to the provider. Not just to properly operate gadgets, but to understand, recognize and treat injuries in a bit more details.
In some ways, mimicking the colour of the first aid lapel pins; BTS1 is like EFA (red pin), which have all the components to deal with life-threatening injuries (in this case to perform independent patient care) and BTS2 (green SFA pin) which covers the "standard" of patient care, which is constant upgrade based on community needs and public view to the brigade as a whole. The line here could be blurry, since the need might be closer to the minimum content in some circumstances. However, in some communities, the "black and white uniform" are consider the link before EMS arrive. So if that's the case, shouldn't we view ourselves, maybe the minimum is just not enough?
just my $0.02, and hope this won't break the word counter
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Gordon Siu
New member
Username: Erdaemon

Post Number: 2
Registered: 04-2003
Posted on Friday, April 25, 2003 - 11:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well, it's an interesting subject. A lot of members would question: if BTS1 is the minimum, and there's not really a whole of different if you achieve BTS2 (like double your salary 2x 0 = 0). A pass is a pass, not matter if it is a marginal pass or passing with high honours. However, it should go back to the fundamental question: Why would someone join the brigade? (aka community service unit these days). Some might want to join for the fame (looks good on resume and in uniform for some) or fortune (yes, spending your $ on gas and food while on duty). On the other hand, some might be actually joining with the goal to serve the community, without a court order I hope. They might be a rare bunch, but they are the most likely bunch to push for better and further training, for themselves or someone they care.
Traditionally, BTS1, as the minimum IPCP standard, are looking for members who had the "basic" knowledge and showing competency with reference to the national standard. We aren't asking too much, but there are members who would like to challenge the status quo situation and go for the distance.
Thus trainers might define any item beyond BTS1 under the BTS2 banner. Not because it is appropriate, but there just aren't anything out there which would provide any more appropriate evaluation criteria than BTS2. BTS2 itself, based on the printed standards posted under a different section on this site, isn't a whole lot more than BTS1. However, some evaluators just would not allow members to challenge BAP2 without the necessary training hours, as mentioned by Shannon. Not because the member in question doesn't have the skills, but BTS2 standard isn't just rely on skills alone.
It's fine and dandy that some divisions have "top of the line" equipment, but a BTS2 member should not only be able to make use of what's available (improvisation), but also to provide leadership role in rescue situation. That alone, should be the selling point of BTS2, and the true meaning of an advanced patient care provider. We are not just trying to train monkeys to go out on duties. We want proficient providers, who are good and comfortable with their skills, under most circumstances to provide the best care, to their own communities, where their families, relatives and friends might reside. Respect is not by appointment, it have to be earned. Putting in the hours for training meetings is one way to qualify for taking BAP2, but not the absolute way.
BTS2 training is supposed to provide further knowledge on both theoretical and practical skills to the provider. Not just to properly operate gadgets, but to understand, recognize and treat injuries in a bit more details.
In some ways, mimicking the colour of the first aid lapel pins; BTS1 is like EFA (red pin), which have all the components to deal with life-threatening injuries (in this case to perform independent patient care) and BTS2 (green SFA pin) which covers the "standard" of patient care, which is constant upgrade based on community needs and public view to the brigade as a whole. The line here could be blurry, since the need might be closer to the minimum content in some circumstances. However, in some communities, the "black and white uniform" are consider the link before EMS arrive. So if that's the case, when we ask ourselves, maybe the minimum is just not good enough.
just my $0.02, and hope this won't break the word counter
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Kevin Morgan
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Username: Kmorgan

Post Number: 1
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Thursday, May 22, 2003 - 07:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Well... These are interesting discussions.

First off, I don't mean to offend anyone here, these are my opinions and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of anyone else.

Why study BTS 2? Why take a course at all? Are we not all here to improve our skills and enhance our knowledge? As Dayman said, we are here to provide the best patient care we can, and in my opinion that is through continually working to improve our skills and knowledge. You might take the training for O2, BP, AED, backboarding and KEDing and everything else separately. Can you put it all together?

For some people achieving BTS 2 is a final step in "putting it all together". Yes, they may have learned all of these skills through different training nights and courses. Sometimes they have problems putting it together. Taking the Advanced courses or BTS II training tries to put it together for you. I have had several members who have been around forever. They took an advanced course and tried their BTS 2. Yes, they realized they already knew a lot of the stuff, and had a lot of the skills. They also felt more confident after completing the additional training and practice, and that they were more capable of putting it all together and confidently and competently completing their level 2 BAP.

And as far as I am concerned, if you have all the skills for the BTS 2, why not take it? I know that there are (and there always will be) those who think they're better than the BTS 1 or non BTS people because they are BTS 2, but that's not a good reason to not take it.

And maybe you yourself do not personally need the recognition of being a higher level of training, but that's not what the uniform identifiers are for. BTS identifiers are useful in interdivisional duties, and while I don't think anyone should "look down" on someone based on the identifiers they wear on their uniform, being able to tell at a glance someone's level of training is useful.

You might say you have all these skills (and this is not directed at anyone specifically) and you might have had all the additional training, but the recognizeable BTS 2 identifiers are supposed to be assurance to the other people that you do have it (And yes, I know some people have it who shouldn't, but it's an ongoing battle to find good evaluators and training officers). If you have the skills, I hate to put it this way, but prove it.

If you're in an area where only a few people have BTS 2, why not take it and set and example? More people might follow. And as I said, a lot may realize there's more to it than they think. And don't stop at the minimum requirement for level 2. Why not grab the level 3 guidelines and look at some of them?

If nothing else, the level 2 is more practice and at a higher level. Why not try it and find out. Just like many people find they know a lot of the stuff already, many more find out that they don't know it as well as they think they do.

To those considering attempting level 2, I say go for it. But make sure you get the training you need first. Talk to your training officer about it, it's their job to make sure you are up to the standards BEFORE you take the assessment. And when you do try it, you might find there's more to it than you think, and that you do need more practice. I won't hassle anyone into level 2, but I encourage anyone to try it. Not to offend anyone here, but the one line I don't buy from anyone is "I already know I have all the skills, I don't need to prove it". And remember, the only time a failure is a bad thing (and truly a failure), is when we don't learn from it so that we can succeed (or even be a little closer) next time. And even if you don't have the toys, the advanced assessment skills and the extra practice will ALWAYS prove useful.
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Mike Rumble, RPN
Senior Member
Username: Mrumble

Post Number: 82
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Friday, May 23, 2003 - 11:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Perhaps there is a good suggestion in the title of this thread. "Why STUDY for the BTS2?" I think the keyword is STUDY. Perhaps you (referring to any person reading this) do not agree with being tested to prove you skills but this does not mean that you cannot persue a course of study for skills that will only enhance your ability to care for your patient. Nobody is saying you have to undergo a level 2 BAP just because you're involved in a level 2 BTS. Of course, the obvious question would be: if you're going to invest your time in training why not obtain the recognition. But, as stated above, it should not be a contest with your peers. I find my members can, for the most part, be responsible for learning all the knowledge and skill involved in BTS1 on their own time. Yes, we still practice these skills at meetings, but I find the BTS2 allows for learning and practicing new and challenging skills. And for all you training officers out there, I LOVE THE STANDARDS AND REFERENCE GUIDES! Pre-packaged training plans for your meetings. Personally, my cadets and crusaders use the BTS1 SRG and Basic Rescue II: Technical proficiency as a training standard and the adults follow the BTS2 SRG. It works for us, anyway.
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Lana Hart
New member
Username: Ldh

Post Number: 1
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Monday, November 03, 2003 - 08:07 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hi guys, I'm new to this conversation but I seen two common threads, the first and most important is offering superior skills - even if it's just to yourself as a FA provider and the second is the "I'm the best thing to happen to First Aid" ers - let's face it since dereg anybody can claim to be a good FA but are they really - atleast with an easily recognized universal symbol BTS1/2 insignia we hope that PCP is atleast competent. We've all seen the hotdogs, yes, but there's way to many out there that think because their BT2 that they have now become the left hand of God. On the other side of that coin there's the ones who barely pass a SFA but think the same thing - I'd rather take my chances with the one with the higher training and hopefully the whole BAP process will soon weed out the Prima Donnas anyway - it does work - I've seen it happen a few times so keep the faith and keep up the good work all!!
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Mike Rumble, RPN
Senior Member
Username: Mrumble

Post Number: 93
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Monday, November 03, 2003 - 04:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I guess the problem is that even without BTS2, those "I'm the best thing to happen to First Aid"ers are still going to have egos the size of Texas. Occupational hazard.
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Alex Kroeze
Senior Member
Username: Akroeze

Post Number: 57
Registered: 07-2003
Posted on Monday, November 03, 2003 - 05:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mike,

I'd say almost every Brigade has one of those... it's when they go beyond their bounds that it become a problem. I won't go into specifics of my Brigade's experience out of decency... but I think you know what I'm referring to in this case.
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Kevin Morgan
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Username: Kmorgan

Post Number: 2
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Monday, November 03, 2003 - 08:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree, every Division has at least one of those. You kind of have to keep them turned down a notch if you can, and hopefully the DS and DTO can address it before it becomes a big problem.

It's bad enough when the person is a competent and good responder (just with a big ego) but it's much worse when their skills suck and their ego is that big.
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Alex Kroeze
Senior Member
Username: Akroeze

Post Number: 60
Registered: 07-2003
Posted on Monday, November 03, 2003 - 08:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Those are the ones I take the liberty of diagnosing with terminal "Wannabe but never could be syndrome" a syndrome that is in distressingly high circulation and seems to have little successful cures.
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Mike Rumble, RPN
Senior Member
Username: Mrumble

Post Number: 96
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Monday, November 03, 2003 - 09:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

*lol* Is it fatal? :-)
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Alex Kroeze
Senior Member
Username: Akroeze

Post Number: 61
Registered: 07-2003
Posted on Monday, November 03, 2003 - 10:14 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You mean you didn't learn about this Mike? Must only be part of the new 2 year RPN program and not the old 1 year ;)

Common symptoms include an uncontrollable urge to follow Ambulances (very often developing into just anything with red lights); constant mentioning of all the emergency service workers you know even if it doesn't apply to the conversation at hand; strong urge to make up fictional instances where it appears you 'saved the day'; presumption of knowledge far superior to actual professionals.

This is just a brief list of the most commong symptoms. As far as I've heard the latest research suggests a firm smack upside the head is the best method of controlling this disease although we don't seem to be able to cure it entirely. Rest assured that research is definitely ongoing.

If you know anyone that exibits these symptoms, or if you think you have them yourself, then contact your local Public Health unit as this is a reportable disease. They will have the most up-to-date information on this debilitating condition and can direct you to approprate support groups.

This has been a public service announcement.

:D
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Mike Rumble, RPN
Senior Member
Username: Mrumble

Post Number: 97
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Tuesday, November 04, 2003 - 12:56 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ah yes, I seem to recall it now. As I remember it also involves an uncontrollable urge to collect scanners set with ambulance frequencies and deposit them in "convenient" locations (bedroom, living room, car, next to the toilet). This is a result of some schizo-affective symptom creating a delusion in the affected patient's head that he is actually involved in the ambulance call he can hear over the radio.

I may have come across one or two of these unfortunate individuals in my time in St. John. Tell me, is it possible to enroll these people in the head-smack therapy trial you describe?
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Alex Kroeze
Senior Member
Username: Akroeze

Post Number: 66
Registered: 07-2003
Posted on Tuesday, November 04, 2003 - 08:21 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

You are correct that scanners are involved. It has however been proven just this year that that alone is not a good method of diagnosing this disease. There are many people who own scanners but still lead productive, normal lives in society.

As far as the head-smack therapy it is currently being tested at the London Health Sciences Centre and requires a referral of a neurologist. It is hoped that if this method proves to be successful that it will be able to be employed nationwide and may even be authorised to be performed by SJA officers at the DS level or above! Needless to say word is that prov council has a lot of time and resources invested in making sure this research finishes as it would be great benefit to us.
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Mike Rumble, RPN
Senior Member
Username: Mrumble

Post Number: 98
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Tuesday, November 04, 2003 - 10:26 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Okay... now back to our regularly scheduled discussion: Why study for the BTS2?
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Alex Kroeze
Senior Member
Username: Akroeze

Post Number: 68
Registered: 07-2003
Posted on Tuesday, November 04, 2003 - 11:50 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good question.

That, and how much work is it to run a BAP2? If we're running a BAP1 and I decide I'd like to take a level 2 can that be easily done as long as an evaluator is there? Or is there a large amount of paperwork making it unfeasable for it to be run for 1 person along side the level 1s?
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Melissa Yingbull
Senior Member
Username: Mying

Post Number: 53
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Tuesday, November 04, 2003 - 01:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Easily done as long as there is a level 2 evaluator, supervising evaluator and enough casualties to simulate the level 2 scenario. Talk to your DTO and have them contact Gordon Siu, your SW district training officer, if you want that set up.
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Alex Kroeze
Senior Member
Username: Akroeze

Post Number: 69
Registered: 07-2003
Posted on Tuesday, November 04, 2003 - 02:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

ya, I'll do that. It's kind of short notice. Our BAP is this month (I already have level 1) but the units will be out there so the equipment will be available and we have lots of casualties.

I'll talk to my DTO and see if he'd be willing to let me do that. I mean, I already have my level 1 so if I fail level 2 I can still go on duty, if I pass I get another stripe. No harm done in taking it.
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Melissa Yingbull
Senior Member
Username: Mying

Post Number: 54
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Tuesday, November 04, 2003 - 02:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Your DTO will know this, but you'll need to have your level 2 knowledge & skills checksheet signed off by either the person who trained you in those skills, or your DTO vouching for you that you know them.
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Lana Hart
New member
Username: Ldh

Post Number: 2
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Thursday, November 06, 2003 - 11:20 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Yipes!! Just a simple off the cuff remark and off we go!! Who'da thought we had that kind of passion (or resentment??)? I didn't realize that button was quite that hot when I made my comment, nevertheless (and thankfully) there are a lot more really talented folks out there who either don't want or don't get the attention that they rightfully deserve. In a perfect world politics wouldn't be such a large factor in this but hey I never said we lived in a perfect world..Hey Akroeze I say go for it and if during the course of the BTS2 a little "smack up beside the head" is in order well..go for that too! Is there anybody else who just wishes we could train our little brains out until we've learned everything we want and then have no concerns other than doing the duties (which obviously proves that we should visit neurologists since we quite likely came out short on the gene pool since, duh! we actually like doing those things) and keeping our skills honed. Politics is nice but ya iz what ya iz and ya ain't what ya ain't! On an offside - anyone have some good resource suggestions for boning up for the BTS2? I had some but they got lost in the shuffle some where??
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Mike Rumble, RPN
Senior Member
Username: Mrumble

Post Number: 100
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Thursday, November 06, 2003 - 04:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As a L2 evaluator, I can speak for what I look for in a candidate but that doesn't necessarily mean it is what every evaluator looks for. In my opinion, Level 1 is about getting through ESM without killing your patient. Level 2 is more about the assessments behind what is going on with your patient. Don't get me wrong, you still need to know ESM cold but ideally if you think you're ready for level 2 then ESM should be a breeze for you. This is also why I don't consider just knowing how to use a backboard and BP cuff is enough knowledge to attempt the BTS2. If you're studying, beef up on assessments. Know how to use the "toys" but remember your whole purpose is to treat the patient, not the equipment. Most First Responder, EMT-B and Paramedic textbooks will offer good assessment tools. Nursing and other allied health books are also good.
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Kevin Morgan
Junior Member
Username: Kmorgan

Post Number: 8
Registered: 02-2003
Posted on Thursday, November 06, 2003 - 04:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I agree with Mike in everything he says there, as another Level 2 evaluator.

My opinion has always been for a level 2 you better show me that you know what you're doing. Not just that you can turn on the O2 and use the BP cuff, but that you can take an assessment, use that information in the treatment, and that you have some level of confidence (and of course competence) in what you are doing.

I would suggest taking an MFR/EMR/EFR program also if that's an option, but most importantly, the person needs experience. They can train all they want but if they don't treat real patients, they won't be confident and competent. Don't rush yourself into a BTS, get the experience you need first. Before you train to a level 2 standard you should be totally competent and comfortable with the level one skills. One of the worst things you can do is rush someone (or be rushed) into a BTS. If the person comes out unsuccessful, they may not take it well.

It's even worse if they manage to come out successful (maybe they managed to put on a good enough show, or they got the easy scenario, or whatever the reason) but they really aren't ready.
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Lana Hart
New member
Username: Ldh

Post Number: 3
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2004 - 07:19 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey Happy New Year everyone. I'm actually coming on with "hat in hand" - I'm looking for a copy of a Level 3 BAP paper (theoretical and practical as well as guidelines, preferred). As well I've misplaced my copy of the BAP 1 Theoretical Assessment - does anyone know where I can get hold of one? I've checked the site but unless I'm loosing it (quite possible) I haven't located the listings.
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Lana Hart
New member
Username: Ldh

Post Number: 4
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Wednesday, February 04, 2004 - 07:24 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Wow! That was quick. Thanks for the email ND. Not sure how I missed that - guess it was the forest and trees thing. Thanks again.
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Mike Fleming
New member
Username: Mikethemedic

Post Number: 2
Registered: 07-2005
Posted on Thursday, July 21, 2005 - 10:28 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am an EMT trained in california, now back in Ontario, and I have my BTS-1, am I allow to challenge the BTS-2, if so is their anyone out their that would do my testing for the BTS-2.

(Message edited by mikethemedic on July 21, 2005)

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