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Rick Patterson
Member
Username: Rick_patterson

Post Number: 7
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Saturday, November 16, 2002 - 05:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I was looking over some of the military cadet sites and I started wondering if we have a cocensus as to what we are trying to accomplish.
A few years ago the military cadets did a large overhauling of their system, should we do the same?
From being part of St. John Ambulance in 3 different provinces I have found that there seems to be different perceptions as to what we are trying to accomplish.
Right now the division I am running has decided it should be to prepare cadets for careers in paramedics/nursing/medical fields. I know citizenship is in there to .
So what I'm proposing here is to open a forum to get a concensus as to what our mission is and then decide on some form of training that would be the same throughout Ontario and maybe even Canada.
And hey if everyone is comfortable with the status quo let me know to.
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D. E. (Dean) Lenz, SBStJ
Member
Username: Dlenz

Post Number: 8
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Saturday, November 16, 2002 - 06:13 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I guess Rick, in a way, most of our cadets (from BC) have joined the program as it was their desired "specialty". Meaning, they like the para-military side with drill, dress, deportment and discipline, but also selected St. John Cadets becuase of it's pre-hospital care focus rather than learning how to fly a glider, sail a boat, or drive a tank/jeep and shoot.

Several members of our program have LEFT the Tri-Service Cadets of the CF and have joined our ranks cause it meets "all their needs" not just some.

Lately with the talk of changing our LOGO, changing our uniform, has stirred up a very large anti-change sentiment. We appear not to be opposed to change, just more against the reasons for the change. It is okay to change but lets be sure we are changing for the right reasons, not just some "cosmetic" reason.

Our members in BC, generally speaking (and I would say the vast majority) are happy with the uniform, the logo, the titles, the rank structure and the way we are going.

We would certainly like to see a more "consolodated" look across the country but only if it retains the tradition, the history and sells the organization for who we are and what we do best, not what someone "thinks we should be".

We are the best in providing first aid to the sick and injured, we have been for hundreds of years. We are the best providers of first aid training in the Country. We are also the best, in our opinion, of the Cadet/Youth programs in existance, finding a happy balance between a structured program of youth leadership development to simple "building of friendships" and citizens.

I look forward to a very spirited conversation thread on this topic.
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Rick Patterson
Intermediate Member
Username: Rick_patterson

Post Number: 11
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Saturday, November 16, 2002 - 07:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

That's what I'm hoping for here a spirited conversation, I tend to agree with your views and maybe there are others out there who feel the same. Maybe it's a case where cadets may look different than the adult component. But if enough of us care and are bold enought to write something here maybe Provincial and National will listen to the voice of the members and not the popularity polls. Once again I reiterate "but then again I might be wrong "
lets hear from everyone cadets and adults
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Rick Patterson
Intermediate Member
Username: Rick_patterson

Post Number: 12
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Saturday, November 16, 2002 - 07:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Does everyone tend to agree with the ideals of cadets keeping its para military stylings along with the medical aspect?
Or should we head in a new direction?
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Franco Tsang
Member
Username: Ftsang

Post Number: 8
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Saturday, November 16, 2002 - 09:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i think that there's no need for the changes mentioned in da previous posts
y need change when it's already good?!
i think dat we just need to "advertise" ourselves more so dat ppl out there would actually know of our existance! many ppl dun even know dat there's some organization called St John!
from the past 2 yrs dat i've been to CNE duties, MANY ppl mistake us as security guards!!! they come to us w/ questions about WASHROOMS, WHERE'S THIS/THAT, etc etc. and they suddenly see: "oh, they're St John'S!"
ppl dun even no we r St John Ambulance, so y waste our time/effort/money into change of uniform/logo/titles/rank structure when wat we really need to do is something else?!
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Rick Patterson
Intermediate Member
Username: Rick_patterson

Post Number: 13
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Saturday, November 16, 2002 - 10:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thanks for the input, this is what we need.
I know we've all had the stories about being mistaken for security, but you know what it doesnt hurt to know where some of the above mentioned places are and hey when you do tell them let them know it was St. John ambulance volunteers and not fly by night security that helped them.
I've never taken offence at the fact people mistake me for security, I just usually smile give the info and when they say we look like security I just tel them that the security companies took their colours from us as we've had them since 900 AD. It usually leads into a short discussion but as always education and politeness should always be part of our kit when out in the public .
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Franco Tsang
Member
Username: Ftsang

Post Number: 9
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Sunday, November 17, 2002 - 12:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

yes yes, i agree
i alwayz try to help those ppl to the best of my knowledge even though that isnt really wat we were there for! =)
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Melissa Ying
Junior Member
Username: Mying

Post Number: 3
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Monday, November 18, 2002 - 01:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

People ask you where the washrooms are not because they think you are security, but because you are in uniform and therefore look like you work there and know your way around. Also, a uniform invites questions, because it means you're there for the public.

Nevertheless it's true we get mistaken for security too often. It is because the Canadian (and American) public have no concept of a specialized first aider. Either you're a paramedic/ambulance attendent, or you are a security guy with a first aid badge, nothing in between. And since you aren't sitting inside a great big truck with flashy lights... even paramedics have been mistaken for security when separated from their car.

In England, the concept of the professional first aider (better than a security guard, but not necessarily involved with ambulances) is part of common knowledge and they don't have nearly as many mis-identification problems. English TV programs (soap operas, dramas, their version of ER) will feature St. John Ambulance -- incorrectly at times but still, it's part of their culture. Since we import all our TV shows from the US they show us nothing at all that comes even close to what we do.
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Rick Patterson
Intermediate Member
Username: Rick_patterson

Post Number: 14
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Monday, November 18, 2002 - 07:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So maybe what we need to do is something we've maybe let slip a bit and that's re educate the general public as to who we are exactly.
Maybe take a look at our Commonwealth family and see how they do business.
Thanks for the input, keep it coming
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Catherine MacKay
Junior Member
Username: Cmackay

Post Number: 3
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Tuesday, November 19, 2002 - 03:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I always thought our goal (as youth leaders)was to teach our members not only first aid, but to be proud of themselves and of our history.

I agree with Melissa, although we are often mistaken for security, I think that it is a good way to inform the public who were are and I don't think a new uniform will change the concept. I know when I was at world youth day we were often asked if we were from Switzerland, so the uniform doesn't always make the difference.

There is always room for change in our mission, but I think we need to stick to the basics. We do provide first aid and are often a steping stone towards a medical career, whichever that is. I think that we should be training the members to be proud and good first aiders. I think there needs to be the proficiencies to open their eyes to other things in the world and I think we need things like camp so they can make new friends.
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Hal Rowan
New member
Username: Hrowan

Post Number: 3
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Tuesday, November 19, 2002 - 05:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Getting the youth involved in the community is a great way of advertising. They're usually too short and HAPPY to be confused with security gaurds!

The Therapy Dog proficiency (hospitals and seniors centres), radio communications proficiency (Youth on the Aire), etc are all ways the public can see other sides to us. If doing a group proficiency, try to do it where the public will see you. Food and Nutrition (local soup kitchens). Come up with ways of showing the public what the Youth program is all about in a fun way. Lots better than staying awake at a booth in the mall.

I think that Divisions should be able to post samples of their training program on here. That way you could pick and choose which parts you like the best and which ones would work in your community. It would be hard to standardize a training schedule which is rigid and unflexible. Every community and Division has different needs, different skill levels, and varying goals.

I think the end result should be the same. We just need to fight the battles on each front in the way that gains us the most ground.
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Rick Patterson
Intermediate Member
Username: Rick_patterson

Post Number: 18
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Tuesday, November 19, 2002 - 07:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

How about an area sort of what was happening for resources for proficiences, but make it an area like you said Hal where we can pool our training plans , hopefully good ideas will come from it for units struggling and for successful units it will be sharing the wealth and I think we can never run out of ideas and hey there maybe something out there that is so crazy and so fun everyone will love it.. I love this
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Don Smith
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 63
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Tuesday, November 19, 2002 - 07:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

So. you would like a new topic area where people can initiate postings and threads, outlining and sharing their training plans?

As a registered member of the site, if you check the formatting help area, you will note many formatting options and the ability to post and upload pics and documents (if you have a lesson plan or planning document that you would like to share.

Is this what you would like to try... this is easy to create a new topic area for you to try out for size?
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Hal Rowan
Junior Member
Username: Hrowan

Post Number: 10
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Friday, November 22, 2002 - 03:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

After I get my computer working properly I intend to post my training plan into this new area.

I don't think anyone should hesitate to post a plan. It doesn't have to be the one you are currently using. It could be your "dream" plan of what you would like to see happen and are working towards.

Also, it could just be "snapshots" of maybe 1 to three nights that are all tied together somehow.

:-)
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Mike Rumble, RPN
Junior Member
Username: Mrumble

Post Number: 7
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Sunday, November 24, 2002 - 03:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Although not all cadets graduate to enter a medical career, a few do. In my division, we reward cadets who choose a medical career (and have given us a few years of service) with a Littmann Classic II. It's a bit like a local bursary program (although we don't advertise it to the crusaders until one is accepted to a college).

As for a training plan. If you're having difficulty making one up, call Council and ask for the BTS Standards and Reference Guide (Don, can we get this posted online?)... it's a training plan designed for 30 something meetings and covers all the basics for BTS-1 which I find is the training level most of my cadets are able to handle. Just a thought.
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Shannon Cooper
Junior Member
Username: Trainer261

Post Number: 5
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Sunday, November 24, 2002 - 09:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Getting back to the posts about security. In Federal District the running joke is that we are going to get "I dont know where the bathroom is" tattooed on our foreheads. This year at the Ex we ran a display outside our post with our training defib and two to three members in uniform to inform people of who the Brigade really is. We got over 200 names of people who were interested in joining. Now that's pretty good considering Federal District is for Ottawa only. We don't need a new uniform or a different logo. We need more public awareness. Advertising from a national level as well as local. National headquarters moved from St John House to a new location to better suit their corporate image why not try some advertising to go along with that. We are a charitable organization why not go out and look for some sponsors to help pay for a nationally sponsored ad campaign?
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D. E. (Dean) Lenz, SBStJ
Member
Username: Dlenz

Post Number: 14
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Monday, November 25, 2002 - 12:03 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Bravo Shannon,

I would love to see the Organization look at a National Ad Campaign which would benefit both branches (the Association and the Brigade) in promoting who we are and what we do.

Locally, at our levels, we are the cheapest and best form of advertising they could possibly hope for and it is equally our responsibility to ensure we are talking up the "who is St. John" to those who don't know.
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Franco Tsang
Member
Username: Ftsang

Post Number: 12
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Monday, November 25, 2002 - 04:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

here is an article that i wrote as an english assignment last yr, hope it may be useful to some of you:
The First in First Aid
By: Franco Tsang

The mission of St. John Ambulance in Canada is: "To enable Canadians to improve their health, safety and quality of life by providing training and community service."

Being a member of St. John Ambulance myself, I think that it is a fun filled experience. In the past year since I have joined as a Cadet (now a Crusader), I have learned a lot of things that I normally wouldn¡¦t know. For example, things like better first aid knowledge, leadership skills and organizational skills. An advantage of becoming a member is that you get to meet new people and learn from each other in order to grow in life and help out people in need.

St. John Ambulance is an international charitable humanitarian organization that has been active in Canada for over 118 years. It is a foundation of The Most Venerable Order of the Hospital of St. John in Jerusalem, more commonly known as The Order of St. John. The Order of St. John has been in service for more than 900 years worldwide with its 900th anniversary celebrations in 1999 which makes it the oldest charitable organization in the world. The organization is present in over forty countries worldwide with all of its members except for a small number of administrative staff are all volunteers.

Two distinct but mutually dependent groups, the Brigade and the Association carry out all the work of St. John Ambulance in Canada.
The St. John Ambulance Brigade is composed of over 12,700 uniformed Brigade volunteers including more than 2,200 youth members who contribute over two million volunteer hours each year. These volunteers provide community services such as patient care at public events and community health care services. The youth program mainly focuses on community service and personal development. The Brigade¡¦s statement of purpose is: "Trained volunteers recognizing and responding to the community-based needs of all people."

On the other hand, The St. John Ambulance Association is a network of medical professionals, program development specialists and instructors who provide first aid and health promotion course to approximately 800,000 Canadians annually. Training that they provide include emergency and standard first aid, CPR, babysitting, nutrition and other youth oriented training.

In today¡¦s society, many young people are not contributing much to their community. Young people hold the hopes and dreams of tomorrow! If they are willing to contribute their time and energy, they definitely can make a difference. The St. John Ambulance youth program was established to give young people ages six to twenty the chance to help their community by joining in the work of the Brigade. The youth program is great for social, educational and personal development through community service, special events and leisure activities, as well as training for first aid, health care and safety skills. Young people are offered a wide range of options that best meets their needs, interests and abilities. These assignments meet real needs in the community and have great responsibilities that also lead to different consequences. The program is divided into three age categories, Juniors, Cadets and Crusaders.

The Junior program is an activity-based program for children at the age of six to ten. It focuses on having fun and earning badges while learning about St. John Ambulance and why we care for others. Personal development, home safety skills, how to make new friends and first aid training are all strong components of the Junior program. However, Juniors are not authorized to provide community care services or patient care services to the public.

The next group in the youth program is the Cadets from eleven to fifteen years of age. It is the first step for young people toward becoming a first aid provider. The program expands personal skills and knowledge in emergency first aid while building confidence and preparing youth for greater responsibility. Cadets are involved in camping and other fun activities. They are taught the importance of working in groups while giving consideration to individual growth and input. They are able to participate at community service events under the supervision of a qualified Crusader or Adult member. The Cadet members have to follow a guideline called "The Cadet Code of Chivalry" which states:
I promise: To Serve God.
To be loyal to the Queen and to my officers.
To observe the Mottoes of the order which are:
Pro Fide¡XFor the Faith.
Pro Utilitate Hominum¡XFor the Service of Mankind.
To be thorough in work and play.
To be truthful and just in all things.
To be cheerful and prompt in all I do.
To help the suffering and the needy; and
To be kind to all animals.

The last group in the youth program is the Crusaders ages from sixteen to twenty years old. This program allows you to develop your first aid readiness and response skills to a senior level. It offers more advanced patient care training and emphasizes individual leadership qualities while performing community service. Crusaders over the age of eighteen with Brigade Training System (BTS) qualification are permitted to go on duties by themselves and also supervise Cadet members while on duty.

In St. John Ambulance, there are different awards, badges and certificates in recognition of one¡¦s participation and accomplishments. One of the badges that a Cadet or Crusader member can earn is the Grand Prior¡¦s Badge, it is the highest recognition a Cadet can have. The process in earning the badge is quite simple but time consuming. Over the time you are a St. John Ambulance Cadet or Crusader, you could choose to do different proficiency subjects from a list of over fifty of the subjects. Once you have achieved at least twelve of these subjects, you are entitled to the Grand Prior¡¦s Badge. Yet, a member could only do a maximum of four proficiency subjects per year making it a minimum of three years until they could have the chance to earning the badge if they meet all the qualifications. Other badges for Cadets include Special Service Shields for different amount of volunteer hours they have contributed as a member.

One funny experience I had while attending a duty at the Canadian National Exhibition (CNE) this summer is that people always mistake us for security guards since our uniform is very similar to what a security guard would wear¡Xwhite shirt, black tie and black pants. Also, another reason was because we were carrying a radio that we used to communicate with the main post and the dispatch centre in the CNE. A mid-aged lady came to us while we were patrolling around the grounds of the CNE and asked us if we knew where the washroom was! How on Earth would we know?! We are just some St. John Ambulance volunteers doing first aid services in the CNE, so we said we don¡¦t know. Then, she started to yell at us for not knowing where it was since we were ¡§security guards¡¨. After a second or so, she saw the word "Ambulance" on our uniform flashes and realized her mistake and said sorry. After she left, we just laughed since we get mistaken all the time!

Joining St. John Ambulance and becoming a volunteer is a great way for youths to learn and grow. For more information, please contact the Toronto Branch at (416) 967-4244, 46 Wellesley St. East, Toronto, Ontario M4Y 1G5.
Bibliography:
1) Record Book for Cadets and Crusaders
2) http://www.sja.ca
3) http://www.sja-ontario-cadet.org
4) http://www.sja333.org
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Rick Patterson
Advanced Member
Username: Rick_patterson

Post Number: 39
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Monday, November 25, 2002 - 06:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I kind of laugh at the washroom comment because we've all had it happen , but you know a good first aider should know where they are (or have a map at a large venue,as that's where some of our more interesting first aid scenarios play out.
And you know what we've had these colours long before the security guard companies did , maybe we should tell they should be paying us for the privilege to wear our colours.
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D. E. (Dean) Lenz, SBStJ
Intermediate Member
Username: Dlenz

Post Number: 16
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Tuesday, November 26, 2002 - 12:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Hey now there would be a REVENUE GENERATING idea Rick...royalties from contract companies "wearing our colors"....I like it!

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