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Ryan Mclean
New member
Username: Ryan_mclean

Post Number: 1
Registered: 08-2008
Posted on Monday, August 25, 2008 - 06:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i was wanting other individuals outlook on cadets going on duty. i personaly believe cadets taking an active part on duty is a great thing. i believe if they can pass their f/a course and obtain a certificate, they are more than compitent to provide treatment for minor injuries. i also believe some cadets are far more compitant than some adult members, due to experience. being active on a public duty is a wonderful experience, one i wish for all youth members to experience.i understand the liability issue but why do we give them certificates if they are unable to take and active roll? it just seems to be a bit of a contradiction. YOUR THOUGHTS!!!!!1
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Matthew Wakem
Member
Username: Smsja

Post Number: 11
Registered: 09-2007
Posted on Saturday, August 30, 2008 - 06:03 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ryan McLean,
your artical is very true if they don't want us treting then what is the pont of haveing a cadet diviton?.

Matthew Wakem
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Hal Rowan
Senior Member
Username: Hrowan

Post Number: 174
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Tuesday, September 02, 2008 - 11:39 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

In response to Matthew:
I had the opportunity to speak with a Superintendent at the Youth Conference last Spring who made an interesting point. He said that the Youth Program is not just about First Aid and shouldn't be the only focus (although it's obviously our main focus). If you make sure all your members take a First Aid Course (maybe teach one at the beginning of each year) then you don't have to "reteach" the whole course throughout the training year. You can just cover maybe one first aid skill every night, or every other night. The rest of the training can be Proficiencies, Environmental issues (my own Unit takes part in Earth Day activities), or even Physical Fitness (try hosting a volley ball/basketball game between Youth Units or even against an MFR Unit! Or even against the Scouts or Red Cross Youth Units). Have an Instructor teach the Babysitting or WHMIS Course to you so that your members can beef up their rookie resumes (it's hard for High School students to include stuff employers want to see on resumes. Often not enough job experience yet).
As far as volunteering in the community covering First Aid Events, this also shouldn't be our only service to the community (learn as much as you can through observation, and be ready to apply that knowledge when needed). How about having your Youth Unit adopt a Seniors Center? With the help of your Therapy Dog volunteers you can make Christmas Cards to Seniors without family or help out with their special events. You would be surprised at how much a Youth can impact a Seniors holiday by volunteering this way. Or maybe assist your local Block Parent Association with teaching younger kids about street safety? Maybe put together a skit or puppet show for them (I've seen it done with black light-looks really cool!). Maybe host a bike rodeo for the community with your local police assisting you?
What's the point in having a Cadet Division? I would say its' so you don't have to get tied down to just one thing like the MFR and Therapy Dog Units do. Cadet Units are only limited by their imaginations!
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Shane Tyler Savage
New member
Username: Savages

Post Number: 2
Registered: 09-2008
Posted on Saturday, September 20, 2008 - 07:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I think the cadet division is a great thing, but I find in Brockville, teens join because they want to get into the medical field when they get older. So I think in a sense that the "proficiency" program to them is nothing. Some people are with the division just to go out on duty to be exposed to injuries. So I think that the cadet division should be focussing more on first aid and getting ready for MFR so they are ready when they switch over to the adult divison.
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Hal Rowan
Senior Member
Username: Hrowan

Post Number: 176
Registered: 11-2002
Posted on Sunday, September 21, 2008 - 11:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

My NCOs help choose which proficiencies we teach to our members. Last year we did the Physical Fitness proficiency because some of our members were going to be taking college courses that had fitness requirements in them. It focus' on some of the basic skills you might see on the entrance tests to some programs (and perhaps Fire and Police services as well). Some of the proficiency can be modified to mirror the entrance tests more closely too. For example the shuttle run can be changed to the dreaded "beep" test where the runner changes direction when they hear a "beep" as opposed to just reaching a mark on the floor.
Fire Safety could be loosely related especially if you added in components of WHMIS (or maybe teach WHMIS separately as a full course like we did).
Multiculturalism would be another good one. Paramedics/nurses/doctors can interact with half the United Nations depending on what community you live in! You might be surprised at the variety of customs people have when dealing with their injured (I would suggest some specific direction on which cultures to study so you see something different from your own).
Communicating with People with Disabilities would be another one.
I would suggest you take a look at the list of Proficiencies (and maybe let your medical friends have a look too) and choose the ones that YOU think would be of interest to your Unit. Then talk to your DS or Training Officer about offering them up for the next season.
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Travis Pinkerton
Junior Member
Username: Travisp

Post Number: 10
Registered: 05-2008
Posted on Saturday, May 09, 2009 - 09:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I feel that as being a cadet member for 4 year's and doing constant F/A training and being able to go on duty an assist with treatment was probablly the best thing for any cadet, especially having that experience before you take your MFR course. We have members that just take the MFR course after they join and have absolutly no experience in doing treatment, but a youth member from my division could handle a scene 10x better than the adult. As the Community Service Coordinator for my division I have no problem with cadet's on duty because they are the future adult MFR's so may as well have them ready to go when they get to that stage. As for the proficence's I personally had no interest in working towards them. I was there to learn F/A not do art's and craft's, just saying....
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C. Collins
Intermediate Member
Username: Wulfnan

Post Number: 16
Registered: 03-2009
Posted on Monday, June 01, 2009 - 04:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I am in total agreement with you in this matter...

Train first play later (arts and crafts)

When I was a Sea Cadet we went into a drill competition with with the local Reserve unit and we kicked butt... However when it came to Shooting we got humbled fast.

But when it comes to first aid adults and cadets are on a level playing field.

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Richard Ball
Senior Member
Username: Rick

Post Number: 42
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Wednesday, June 03, 2009 - 04:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As a AMFR instructor the last 2 posts leave me looking for the "shaking my head icon".
Complete the courses than spout the talk. Although a very small few cadets(under 16) show the maturity level to complete and pass a AMFR course most are no where near ready to move up to this level. As a matter of fact many older cadets and younger & older adults don't pass the AMFR course on their first attempt. This level of training requires candidates to be able to make mature decisions.
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C. Collins
Intermediate Member
Username: Wulfnan

Post Number: 18
Registered: 03-2009
Posted on Wednesday, June 03, 2009 - 06:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mr. Ball You completely missed the point of the last two posts.

What was being said was that training is key to any venture. Cadets can perform better than most others because they train.

Now do me a favor and try to prevent yourself from dogging me on every post I make.

Thanks buddy!!.

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Travis Pinkerton
Member
Username: Travisp

Post Number: 11
Registered: 05-2008
Posted on Wednesday, June 03, 2009 - 07:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't want to start an arguement over this, but I passed my AMFR1 on my first attempt at 16 after being a cadet for a number of years doing stricly First-aid training. If more time was spent in training them with what they need and less time thinking that there unable to perform at an AMFR level they could be more ready when we need them come the time.

I don't want to cause any problems though it's just my view on things having gone threw the program.
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Richard Ball
Senior Member
Username: Rick

Post Number: 45
Registered: 07-2004
Posted on Thursday, June 04, 2009 - 05:18 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

C. Collins I'm not dogging on every post. When you make a statement like this "But when it comes to first aid adults and cadets are on a level playing field" I have to comment. It is not true.
What is the average of your cadets? In most Div's it would be 13-14.Many younger and a fewer at the older end. Most cadets do not have the maturity to make the informed decisions required. Have I met some cadets that are the exception to this? Yes of course. And yes have have came across more than a few adults that are not capable of making these informed decisions also. I agree training plays a big part in proper first aid but being able to make correct decisions at time of stress plays a great role. This comes from training and life experiences. To say the average 14 year old is on a level playing field with someone who is 24 would be false.
As the context of this thread deals with cadets on duty I'm comparing cadets to adult members of St. John Ambulance. If the comparison was between cadets and the average Joe off the street who took a standard first aid course 3 years earlier with no follow up than my assessment would be different.

Rick
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Brian Belanger
New member
Username: B_belanger

Post Number: 1
Registered: 06-2009
Posted on Sunday, June 07, 2009 - 04:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

As far as cadets go with going on duty, I see no problems, as long as they are mature enough to deal with decisions under stress. Brockville has a wide range of skill levels in the cadet division, mostly due to the fact they are there because their friends are there or because they just want to have a good time - not because they want to learn or be involved with this organization. There are cadets in Brockville that are better trained and brighter than some adult members out there. I believe as a past cadet, that going on duty is a great way to learn and boost the skills of any cadet, but have to understand that they can not treat everything due to policies and such. I hope to see more cadets out on duty.

Brian
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C. Collins
Intermediate Member
Username: Wulfnan

Post Number: 20
Registered: 03-2009
Posted on Wednesday, June 10, 2009 - 12:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I would not want my child to join a Cadet program in Richards area but rather Brian's...

I want my child to learn life saving skills and to learn how to adapt and respond to situations... If he never experiences the situation how will he learn to adapt and respond to the situation.

First aid Competition is not the same as real life situation... My nephew is a Cadet and we had this discussion last weekend... He "trains to be a competition first aider not a real life first aider", that was his quote not mine.
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William Woodstock
Senior Member
Username: Wwoodstock

Post Number: 271
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Wednesday, June 10, 2009 - 04:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I have a couple of comments on this, first is, Mr. Collins, are you even a member of St. John Ambulance? Second, as for cadets on duty I completly agree that they should be allowed to be on duty. As a person who started with the cadet when I was 9, I loved going on duty. This being said, me being on duty didn't mean I ever really did much. As I became older and more mature I was allowed to do more and more, under strick supervision. I never went beyond my training, and never did unsupervised treatment. I have no problem with cadets on duty, as long as they stay within their certification, this being said people need to understand that cadets aren't MFR's and as such don't have the same thought process as an MFR might have.
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C. Collins
Intermediate Member
Username: Wulfnan

Post Number: 21
Registered: 03-2009
Posted on Wednesday, June 10, 2009 - 04:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

William I find your whole tone argumentative and smacks of no it all with a touch of I have to have the last word not a good position to take when discussing a topic.

Where not talking about me where talking about cadets... But if you had of taken the time to read my previous posts instead of picking out the tid bits you want to harp on then you would have the answer your looking for.

Your argument is moot. No one is disagreeing with you.!! Your the one arguing with yourself here William. Your verbalizing the points that were not mentioning because there so obvious we don't need to say it.

Come down from your soap box for a while and give your self a rest.
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Bonnie McIntosh
New member
Username: Bonbon

Post Number: 1
Registered: 12-2002
Posted on Wednesday, June 10, 2009 - 07:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

I don't think that people should generalize about an area based on one persons ideas/thoughts. I am a current leader in the area that Richard is a part of and feel that our cadet program does allow the kids to learn life saving skills and to learn how to adapt and respond to situations. We have always allowed our cadets to participate on duties/field trips as hands on experience is the best kind of training around. Mind you we would only allow them to do things at their skill level and supervised.
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William Woodstock
Senior Member
Username: Wwoodstock

Post Number: 272
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Thursday, June 11, 2009 - 08:11 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mr. Collins, I asked a question I already know the answer to. I feel that you are on here to cause a problem as a former member, and you have no other purpose here. I am expressing my opinions about cadets on duty, is that wrong of me? I was giving my point of view of how I felt. You are becoming too aggressive for a person on an open forum that youth members might be reading. You are attacking members who are just trying to get their point across, which is what a forum is for. Mr. Collins I would appreciate it if you govern yourself accordingly and replied respectfully and on topic, not bashing those who have different ideas than those of you own.
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C. Collins
Intermediate Member
Username: Wulfnan

Post Number: 22
Registered: 03-2009
Posted on Sunday, July 12, 2009 - 05:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Mr Woodstock

Me being a former member or not has no bearing on any discussion here I am entitled to a say and an opinion because this is an open forum and not a members only site as you seem to believe.


I am not concerned if youth members see the posts here, that is for the moderator to censor not you. As far as attacks go I can cut and paste every one of your attacks on me if you like... the only person here who has an Axe to grind is YOU!! You tell me to govern myself accordingly I suggest you take a close look at yourself and read some of your own posts and be honest how do you think your tone is received.
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Don Smith
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 739
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Monday, July 13, 2009 - 12:55 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Gentlemen. I think that both of you have had your say and must now agree to disagree. This website and these discussion areas are a means to voice opinion, share knowledge and obtain information for all. Please do not use this site to further debate one another personally.

Thank you for your cooperation.
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Martin
Senior Member
Username: Marty

Post Number: 117
Registered: 06-2005
Posted on Wednesday, July 15, 2009 - 07:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Thank you Don.
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C. Collins
Intermediate Member
Username: Wulfnan

Post Number: 23
Registered: 03-2009
Posted on Thursday, July 16, 2009 - 03:42 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Like I said previously you seem to have this need to be right and must always have the last word.
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Lana H
Senior Member
Username: Ldh

Post Number: 216
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Thursday, July 16, 2009 - 09:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Enough already!!! Could we please stay on topic here???? I for one don't need my mailbox full of sniping back and forth that's not what this site is for - it is for healthy, constructive discussion - not this

(Message edited by ldh on July 17, 2009)
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William Woodstock
Senior Member
Username: Wwoodstock

Post Number: 277
Registered: 01-2004
Posted on Friday, July 17, 2009 - 11:30 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

wow.... I think its time for you to grow up and move past this already. I respected Mr. Smith's request and you should too.
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Don Smith
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 742
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Friday, July 17, 2009 - 11:46 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Everyone has now had their say. Post no further personalized comments.
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melanie smith
New member
Username: Smith11003

Post Number: 2
Registered: 07-2009
Posted on Saturday, August 29, 2009 - 06:39 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Not to start this arguement all over again... but having spent 15 years in this organization and being a paramedic I think you all need to stop and think about this...

I would like to say that I have had the blessing of holding several different officer positions over the years, including being both a superintendant of Adult and Youth divisions, Area Cadet Officer, Training officers for both divisions...

As the current AMFR unit coordinator for Pembroke, I am trying to undo years of bad blood between the adult and youth divisions caused by poor attitudes of adults that the youth program is nothing more than a social gathering and that they are incompetent and to immature to go on duty.... I have to tell you that after years with this organization having read the above debate that it frosts me that there are still backwards people in this organization who really have no concept of what the youth program is about and what they can accomplish.. I now have the pleasure of having one of my cadets as my full time ambulance partner at work.. and I can guarantee you that his skill level and his maturity were never in question as a youth member..

Yes there will always be the odd youth member who isn't ready to go on duty... thats a fact but its unfair to paint all youth members with that brush.. I believe its discriminatory and unfair...

The youth members are entitled to go on duty to put there skills to good use.. no they can't perform independant duties until they are 18 but it doesn't mean they can't go with MFR's and assist, in fact it is great experience for them.. it teaches them life.. how else are they going to learn... for all of you who don't work in EMS allow me to broaden your horizon and advise you that even as a paramedic we ride third to learn to put our skills to use....

So in closing of my rant.. and I do apologize for ranting Don but I couldn't just let it go by...

Why not learn what the program is about, learn to trust your youth members allow them to gain some experience and realize that our youth members are the most valuable asset that we in St John Ambulance will ever have...

First aid and Duties are 1/3 of there program that most youth members aren't getting to be a part of and its not fair to them because other members before them have wrecked it... and for the record I would rather take some youth members on duty then the immature individuals above who couldnt' even hold a mature conversation!
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C. Collins
Intermediate Member
Username: Wulfnan

Post Number: 24
Registered: 03-2009
Posted on Saturday, August 29, 2009 - 08:29 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Melanie did it feel good and make you feel powerful to include your last paragraph? I hope this attitude isn't being included in your youth program. Like most emerg personnel your superiority complex is most prevalent.

Just last week I took great pleasure in issuing a provincial offense notice to a paramedic supervisor for excessive idling... I hope he challenges it because I have video and audio of him acting like a goof trying to out authority me.
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Don Smith
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 743
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Saturday, August 29, 2009 - 08:43 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Ladies and gentlemen. Stop the personal attacks and suggestive language you are using against others. Be objective; make your points; be civil and enjoy the benefits of these discussion areas and the friendships we should be trying to develop.
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melanie smith
New member
Username: Smith11003

Post Number: 3
Registered: 07-2009
Posted on Saturday, August 29, 2009 - 08:57 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Don

I agree, this is supposed to be a friendly atmosphere for individuals to share there opinions with other division members and gain ideas.

I am very disgusted at Mr Collins remarks and obvious hatred towards other emergency services. Obviously he has an underlying issue that know one is aware of and his attitude is obviously clouding his judgement.

To Mr Collins

You have obviously had issues with EMS in the past, and are lumping all of EMS together, in the same way that all cadets are being lumped together as immature.

Whatever your experience was in the past with EMS should not be allowed to cloud your judgement in dealing with EMS personnel as part of this organization. I know many members of St John Ambulance who have used there experiences in the organization to go and do great things with there lives and I was simply trying to convey that each cadet is an individual and should be treated on there own merit and allowed to be given equal opportunity for all aspects of the program. I think everyone would agree.

Working together to create a better safer environment for everyone should be one of our goals and that should include teaching our youth members that they are valuable contributing members of not only our organization but also the community as a large and we the adults and officers of this organization and especially those of us who are employed in the Emergency Services should be teaching them tolerance and important life skills.
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Lana H
Senior Member
Username: Ldh

Post Number: 217
Registered: 11-2003
Posted on Sunday, August 30, 2009 - 08:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

Good grief Mr. Collins - give it up already! Whatever your beef is PLEASE stop using this forum to shove it at the rest of us. Many members of this forum are not and never will be "professionals" but most are very good, caring people regardless of what they do for a living, who just want somewhere to share thoughts and ideas, why you insist on making this about your issues personal is beyond me. If your beef is with St. John why do you want to be on this site in the first place? I'm sure a quick cyber search would find you plenty of forums where your ventings or opinions or whatever they are would be right at home, if not welcomed. If your issue is with EMS what does that have to with us and specifically with the Youth forum? Like Melanie and many others I have had the pleasure of holding many positions in St. John, both with Cadets and Adults and I know the value of both programs and how well they can work together and the benefits to both. I also know that as an organization we do have some issues - who doesn't?? While I do have some misgivings with the changes that have come about in the policy regarding Youth on duty, I know that this is something that is being worked with, and in most cases, successfully. I would hazard a guess that almost everyone that has had the opportunity to work with Youth members have been pleasantly surprised by the knowledge, skill and maturity that is exhibited my the majority of the members, the maturity I will add which seems to be a little lacking in some of the previous posts here. As for the superiority complex - sure it might be there for some - and they don't have to be emergency personnel to have it let me tell you, but it looks like there might a few other people here that suffer from it more than those they are bashing, based on the serious case of "one up man ship" that's being displayed here. I sense the need to dissect each written comment word by word in order to find "proof" of persecution - paranoia at it's finest - quick! any mental health professionals on board? Let's have a nice, healthy, beneficial discussion and stop bashing other members. If you can't do that folks maybe you're on the wrong site - remember "pro utilitate hominum"? Who are we serving with this kind of behaviour.
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J. Renacure, RN(EC), MScN, DNP(C)
Senior Member
Username: Johnrenacure

Post Number: 88
Registered: 10-2005
Posted on Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 06:18 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

i just have to say something, I have kept quiet on this argument however i have to ask, what would thrill you to issue a provincial offense to a EMS supervisor that had his or her vehicle running while engaging in their operations.

I can tell you we often leave our vehicles running purely to keep power to the laptops, etc. otherwise in 20 minutes the battery would be dead when not plugged in to a shoreline (and most supervisors vehicles don't even have shorelines running into them)....

I dearly hope that the "agency" you work for has a bit more respect for other agencies than you do... and in fact i do hope that supervisor does challenge the offense and hope that that individual see's your post, and uses it as evidence in the charge, as I am sure the JP would drop the charge based on your post here.
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C. Collins
Intermediate Member
Username: Wulfnan

Post Number: 25
Registered: 03-2009
Posted on Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 06:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

3. Prohibitions:
(1) No person shall cause or permit a vehicle to idle for more than five (5) consecutive minutes.
(2) Subsection 2(1) does not apply to:
(a) police, fire or ambulance vehicles while engaged in operational activities, including training
activities, except where idling is substantially for the convenience of the operator of the vehicle;

This person was engaged in paperwork of the Toronto Sun nature and was also talking to his significant other on his cell. my audio and video will show this evidence. The air conditioning was blasting along with the window being wide open with the am fm blaring some crappy country music...

Tell me now if you dare I was in the wrong... Emerg services have no power beyond what their respective acts provide. My duty was clear and I exercised it. If a conviction is obtained then I am sure a report will be forwarded to the service involved.
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Don Smith
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 744
Registered: 10-2002
Posted on Wednesday, September 02, 2009 - 06:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)

This discussion was drifted off topic.

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